Beginning of the end for Bills

[hardcorebillsfan]

8 games in 5 years is not what they originally said was gong to happen.
I guess i still dont understand how an area that doesnt do TV ratings will help the bills. The fan base was always there, they've comedown on buses and done group trips from their bars. The bills instead are going to lose money in advertising because the lost ratings will effect the over all. Add to that Toronto is Canada's biggest city and once they see that even their football fans like a game with 4 downs instead of 3 how long do you think it'll take before a ratings system gets put in place? I'll give you a hint it'll be less than 5 years.

Add to that the collapse of the CBA this fall, yes its happing already. Once the NFLPA forces the end to the salary cap the Bills will be done. It's been shown here before what happens when the team does bad, how long before the NFL hungry Canadian's get their ratings bill passed to lure the NFL to stay?

The proof has already started on this site. An entire catagory for the Toronto Bills, I mean the toronto games.
Even Goodell knows it, when asked he changed the subject instead of saying NO!!!!.

It was nice to have the NFL here while it lasted.

[kosta3]

1) Toronto's ambitions is not to be content on 1 game per year with the odd exhibition game. This is the greedy MLS at work with the Rogers group.
2) The CBA that expires in the next year will probably do away with the hard cap which is bad news for the bills- other teams revenue streams have increased but not the bills. There will be less revenue sharing than in the past and thats a given. The bills will not be able to compete in the new NFL because the revenue is not there.
3) the 5 year time frame is the window dressing and the time needed to finalize plans for the new 80,000 seat retractable stadium being planned at Downsview.
4) Look at the tickert details ( Argos/Ticats fans) get first crack at the tickets- WHY- they are feeling out how willing fans are to pay top prices ( $250 average)- NFL average is under $100 and Bills are last at $46. The future NFL fan in toronto will be required to buy season tickets for either the ARGOS and TICATS- that is how they will increase their ticket base- by selling the NFL as the vehichle for those tickets. EVEN the CFL commissioner was down for the press conference and he publicly has stated the CFL should buy an NFL team. The suits will pay the $250 easily- look at the Leafs. Horrible team year after year but highest ticket and revue in the NHL.
5)This plan will not only bring a team eventually to Toronto but strengthen the CFL with this "partnership"

53000 seats at $250 on average is a gate of 13.0M per game = 130M per year without suites . This would be the highest in the NFL today and more than the Cowboys even in their new stadium. Bills on the hand have an average gate of $3.0M game or $30.0M a year- the #'s dont lie.

NFL is looking at the 6,000,000 poulation in the GTA ( 5th largest market in North America)-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_in_Toronto

[hardcorebillsfan]

1) Toronto's ambitions is not to be content on 1 game per year with the odd exhibition game. This is the greedy MLS at work with the Rogers group.
2) The CBA that expires in the next year will probably do away with the hard cap which is bad news for the bills- other teams revenue streams have increased but not the bills. There will be less revenue sharing than in the past and thats a given. The bills will not be able to compete in the new NFL because the revenue is not there.
3) the 5 year time frame is the window dressing and the time needed to finalize plans for the new 80,000 seat retractable stadium being planned at Downsview.
4) Look at the tickert details ( Argos/Ticats fans) get first crack at the tickets- WHY- they are feeling out how willing fans are to pay top prices ( $250 average)- NFL average is under $100 and Bills are last at $46. The future NFL fan in toronto will be required to buy season tickets for either the ARGOS and TICATS- that is how they will increase their ticket base- by selling the NFL as the vehichle for those tickets. EVEN the CFL commissioner was down for the press conference and he publicly has stated the CFL should buy an NFL team. The suits will pay the $250 easily- look at the Leafs. Horrible team year after year but highest ticket and revue in the NHL.
5)This plan will not only bring a team eventually to Toronto but strengthen the CFL with this "partnership"

53000 seats at $250 on average is a gate of 13.0M per game = 130M per year without suites . This would be the highest in the NFL today and more than the Cowboys even in their new stadium. Bills on the hand have an average gate of $3.0M game or $30.0M a year- the #'s dont lie.

NFL is looking at the 6,000,000 poulation in the GTA ( 5th largest market in North America)-

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Football_League_in_Toronto

CFL will go the way of the XFL, AFL, and USFL once Canada gets an NFL team.

[geargo]

CFL will go the way of the XFL, AFL, and USFL once Canada gets an NFL team.

I dont think the CFL will go away just like those other leagues. Remember Canadian football is over 100 years old. The Argos are the oldest pro team in North America. The CFL has too strong grassroots in Canada simply to just go away and there are plenty of people in our Government to stop that from coming to pass. XFL, USFL had no grassroots had no history the CFL does.

[kosta3]

The NFL will not want to go down in history as the ones that killed the CFL, that is why they will link the season tickets between the both clubs- CFL had the highest average attendance since 1983- outside of Toronto and Hamilton the CFL is very strong- You will probably see the CFL start earlier- late May ( has already been discussed) and season will be over by early October - basically by week 6 of the NFL schedule the CFL will be done- there will be very little overlap.

PS- look at the new season ticket prices for new ticket holders for the ARGOS 2008 season- they have gone up substantially over last year and the cheap seats have been eliminated- they will use the NFL as a chip to increase prices across ther board. The hard core CFL fan who could care less about ther NFL will get screwed.

[D.Patrick]

These are some interesting points here (Kosta3 et al), on how the entry of the Bills to the Toronto market is being managed vis a vis the Argonauts and the CFL generally. You are correct that the NFL is going out of its way to ensure the least disruption to the CFL. It is not hard to see why, particularly if you look at the negative reactions this is raising elsewhere in the CFL: There is a pretty strong current of opinion that, if this is the wedge to eventual full entry of the NFL (though unlikely and undesirable, in my view) the effect on the CFL would be serious, even fatal. The anxiety is unjustifed--there will always be a market for the distinct brand and legacy of 3 down football in Canada, and that can survive and thrive easily alongside the NFL, just as it always has up here. It is more likely to grow the overall football market.

Seeing as Bills and Argonaut fans are being roped together in this venture, whether willing or not, it would be good to get some dialogue going between the respective fan bases. If interested, this is accessible via cfl.ca.

The upside from a Toronto perspective is that we get (some) access to the Bills/NFL, at little cost to the CFL. If it guarantees the survival of the Bills in Buffalo, then all the better. One thing for sure is that it will grow the Bills' Canadian fan base. There is strong interest here and in southern Ontario, but the Bills don't have an automatic lock at presesnt on the loyalties of Canadian NFL fans. There are at least as much allegiance to Giants, Patriots, Steelers, Lions, Browns. Great if that gets directed toward the Bills.

In meantime, how about an Argonauts/Bills exhibition game?

[xftbllfreakx]

i hate toronto now

[Bravo82]

i hate toronto now

yep...but i do think this will take the sabres/leafs rivalry to a new level. so thats a positive :)

[TTboy]

8 games in 5 years is not what they originally said was gong to happen.
I guess i still dont understand how an area that doesnt do TV ratings will help the bills. The fan base was always there, they've comedown on buses and done group trips from their bars. The bills instead are going to lose money in advertising because the lost ratings will effect the over all. Add to that Toronto is Canada's biggest city and once they see that even their football fans like a game with 4 downs instead of 3 how long do you think it'll take before a ratings system gets put in place? I'll give you a hint it'll be less than 5 years.

Add to that the collapse of the CBA this fall, yes its happing already. Once the NFLPA forces the end to the salary cap the Bills will be done. It's been shown here before what happens when the team does bad, how long before the NFL hungry Canadian's get their ratings bill passed to lure the NFL to stay?

The proof has already started on this site. An entire catagory for the Toronto Bills, I mean the toronto games.
Even Goodell knows it, when asked he changed the subject instead of saying NO!!!!.

It was nice to have the NFL here while it lasted.

would you rather have them move to LA?....f**k that....

[hardcorebillsfan]

would you rather have them move to LA?....f**k that....

doesnt matter where they move, once they leave i'm done with them. Going to Toronto is a slap in the face and a reminder of how Erie county, the residents, and the state screwed things up here so bad that the team was forced to leave.
Unless Canada gets a TV rating system in place no NFL team will move there for good, their money is based on that. Thats why i see this backfiring on the Bills. 1 regular season game lost is lost revenue for the team based on a 0 rating, doesnt matter if the game is sold out, it maters who watches it and we wont know.

[BillsFanOntario]

Well, in some parts of that 6 million, cricket is a bigger sport, and football is played with girly men.

[bunnerjk]

I agree with Harcore, this is ******* ********!!!!!!!

This crap has its own forum now???? It should all be deleted instead!!!!

[erak]

8 games in 5 years is not what they originally said was gong to happen.
.


Yes it was what they originally said- one regular season game per year, and a few preseason games. This is no surprise.

[BAY AREA BILLS]

the patsies just lost !!!!!! trick the pats them dang cheats

[bunnerjk]

I agree with Harcore, this is ******* ********!!!!!!!

This crap has its own forum now???? It should all be deleted instead!!!!
I would have to agree, this garbage has its own forum now???

Complete BS..........................

[GoGoBills]

CFL will go the way of the XFL, AFL, and USFL once Canada gets an NFL team.

That's a pretty stupid thing to say. So Ontario aspires to be part of the US, the rest of the provinces don't. The Western teams and the Quebec one love the Canadian game... no NFL team in Toronto (who we don't like anyway) will change that... it's not like it's this hidden treasure that's suddenly available in the eyes of the rest of Canada.

Id