ellis over connor?

[trent "too easy" edwards]

dont understand that one.

[BEASTMODE_23]

ellis is a pass rusher, connor just a tackler, we have our lb corps

[Sabinus]

we needed a DE far more than a backup LB.

[Oblivion88]

yeah. we need a de more than a lb

[sfbla]

DE was our biggest need by far. We had Schobel, Kelsay & Denney. After that our #4 was Ryan Neill (yes, the long snapper).

[trent "too easy" edwards]

we needed a DE far more than a backup LB.

good point but this de looks average on tape. but then again i seen like 3 plays. who knows?

[MCNPA]

I think that there was a need there, but I also bet they had Ellis higher on their board than Connor. Connor slipped by LOTS of teams for a reason. I don't know the reason, but it is not only the Bills that didn't favor him. I don't think it was a close call for the Bills. They were certain about Ellis at this point in the draft, and I guess they feel they can probably get an acceptable TE later.

[BlueForce]

Agree, if we didn't have any needs then , yeah, draft Connor. But with kelsey being mediocre, we need to get pressure on the opposition or our DB's will be sitting ducks just like last year.

[FreeSafety36]

we have 3 DEs, we need 4. Schobel, Kelsay and Denney all getting up there in age. Not to mention kelsay and Denney coming off injuries.

Our LBs are young and 5 deep. (Crowell, Poz, Mitchell, Ellison, DiGiorgio)

[eregitano]

Pass Rush specialist fits the puzzle much more than a guy who will compete for time behind Poz and with Digi.

[CPTBobby2]

Best DE on the Board.

Second round value IMO

[stlbuffaloman]

why would we get a lb before de

[Sabinus]

good point but this de looks average on tape. but then again i seen like 3 plays. who knows?

Ive seen a decent amount on him. Seems like a pretty good player, and can improve with some better technique. I like it. Now, lets move up to get a TE.

[SmileBit299]

Missing on Connor was a HUGE mistake. You take best player available in rounds 3 - 7. Many said that Connor was a better linebackaer than Pozluzney who happened to be a "steal" in the second round last year.

Dan Connor will be a pro bowler a few times in this leage.

Chris Ellis will never be more than a decent rotation player for us.

Terrible pick.

[KoolAidMan]

we can pick up conner in the 5th round!

[The Buttcracker]

i liked xavier adibi if we took/take another LB... with his speed, he'd be a better a ST player which we need from our backups.

[Dave B.]

This pick to me made perfect sense. Over all they get a B+ grade on this years draft.


:thumbsup:

[VirginiaTech Bills]

Ellis just needs good coaches around him to help make some adjustments and to coach him up...he has the body to get bigger and stronger...I think he can be a very good pass rusher

[SmileBit299]

Ellis just needs good coaches around him to help make some adjustments and to coach him up...he has the body to get bigger and stronger...I think he can be a very good pass rusher

The only problem with that is that its a big maybe. So many players with Ellis's size and talent turn out to be average players for their career. Look at Anthony Hargrove.

Dan Connor was not only a sure fire STARTER this year but 3 years down the road people will be calling him one of the best linebackers in the leage. He was big, strong, fast, with a hgih football IQ. He also had less character issues.

[normaliswear]

Missing on Connor was a HUGE mistake. You take best player available in rounds 3 - 7. Many said that Connor was a better linebackaer than Pozluzney who happened to be a "steal" in the second round last year.

Dan Connor will be a pro bowler a few times in this leage.

Chris Ellis will never be more than a decent rotation player for us.

Terrible pick.

Hard to make pro bowls when he woulda been fighting to back up Puz.

Terrible post.

[sjhbillsfan]

dont understand that one.


For a guy who calls himself "too easy" you should be able to understand this one.

Connor is a very good LB, no question, but we need a DE more than a LB.

[cherubiceric]

I don't like this pick. But I'll give Russ Brandon and company a pass after doing well yesterday. I can understand we are set at linebacker, but not a tight end or a center with this pick?

[SmileBit299]

Hard to make pro bowls when he woulda been fighting to back up Puz.

Terrible post.

Go read any scouting report or jump in your time machine and watch some Penn State games. Pozluzney is a great LB and he was a good pick for us last year in round number 2. Dan Connor was flat out a better player than Poz at Penn State. He was much bigger, much stronger, and a little faster. Heck, he was slated in many draft boards to go in the first round a mere 3 months ago.

Terrible post on your part.

[DrinkinDUFFinBUFF]

a VT end? bruce? i hope

[normaliswear]

I don't like this pick. But I'll give Russ Brandon and company a pass after doing well yesterday. I can understand we are set at linebacker, but not a tight end or a center with this pick?

DE, C, and TE were prob our three biggest needs when the pick came up. Prob took the guy rated highest on their board out of those positions.

[BeastOfTheEast]

Did anyone freaking listen to Tom Modrak yesterday when he wa speaking of their board and "there are some places they don't go" based on what they did in free agency and the draft last season?

Well, they drafted Poz and signed Mitchell this off-season, so the pick makes perfect sense.

[SmileBit299]

I don't like this pick. But I'll give Russ Brandon and company a pass after doing well yesterday. I can understand we are set at linebacker, but not a tight end or a center with this pick?

Thats just the thing. EVERY team does well on day one. Every 1st and 2nd round player should be an assett to whatever team drafts them.

The good teams draft well in rounds 3 - 7. We messed up big time with our 3rd round pick.

You always draft needs in rounds 1 and 2.

You always draft best player available in rounds 3 - 7.

That pick alone turned our draft from a B+ to a C.

[cherubiceric]

Thats just the thing. EVERY team does well on day one. Every 1st and 2nd round player should be an assett to whatever team drafts them.

The good teams draft well in rounds 3 - 7. We messed up big time with our 3rd round pick.

You always draft needs in rounds 1 and 2.

You always draft best player available in rounds 3 - 7.

That pick alone turned our draft from a B+ to a C.

Dude, I can't disagree with any of that. This draft class can still be an A-/B+ with a couple of late round steals, though.

[normaliswear]

Go read any scouting report or jump in your time machine and watch some Penn State games. Pozluzney is a great LB and he was a good pick for us last year in round number 2. Dan Connor was flat out a better player than Poz at Penn State. He was much bigger, much stronger, and a little faster. Heck, he was slated in many draft boards to go in the first round a mere 3 months ago.

Terrible post on your part.

Obviously wrong. If he was in the first round on draft boards... he would have been drafted in the first round. Or if he was at one point... he obviously dropped like a rock. He'll be a nice player. But NOBODY... nobody that has a clue... thinks he'll be a pro bowler at this point. Could it happen? Just like every year guys suprise. Ellis could turn out to be a Hall of Famer. Wouldn't expect it... but could happen. And heres the thing... WE NEEDED A DE AND NOT A LB DUH!

[SmileBit299]

Did anyone freaking listen to Tom Modrak yesterday when he wa speaking of their board and "there are some places they don't go" based on what they did in free agency and the draft last season?

Well, they drafted Poz and signed Mitchell this off-season, so the pick makes perfect sense.


Pozluzney, Crowell, and Mitchell make a pretty good linebacking core. Our two backups, DiGeorgie and Ellison are solid backups.

We run into two problems though...

1) Crowell will want a big contract at the end of this season. We are a small market team so we will probably say goodbye to him

2) Name me one linebacking core who was healthy for 16 games of the season? Mitchell would have made an excellent backup.

[normaliswear]

Pozluzney, Crowell, and Mitchell make a pretty good linebacking core. Our two backups, DiGeorgie and Ellison are solid backups.

We run into two problems though...

1) Crowell will want a big contract at the end of this season. We are a small market team so we will probably say goodbye to him

2) Name me one linebacking core who was healthy for 16 games of the season? Mitchell would have made an excellent backup.

I hope you're not trying to say Conner was going to replace Crowell as an outside LB. Its not the same position. Why not just put him at wr if Lee Evans leaves? :thumbsdown:

[BeastOfTheEast]

Pozluzney, Crowell, and Mitchell make a pretty good linebacking core. Our two backups, DiGeorgie and Ellison are solid backups.

We run into two problems though...

1) Crowell will want a big contract at the end of this season. We are a small market team so we will probably say goodbye to him

2) Name me one linebacking core who was healthy for 16 games of the season? Mitchell would have made an excellent backup.

We didn't give Mitchell a 17 million dollar contract to be a backup.

And, by your own admissions, we have two solid backups that both have starting experience.

[SmileBit299]

Obviously wrong. If he was in the first round on draft boards... he would have been drafted in the first round. Or if he was at one point... he obviously dropped like a rock. He'll be a nice player. But NOBODY... nobody that has a clue... thinks he'll be a pro bowler at this point. Could it happen? Just like every year guys suprise. Ellis could turn out to be a Hall of Famer. Wouldn't expect it... but could happen. And heres the thing... WE NEEDED A DE AND NOT A LB DUH!

Think for yourself a little bit. Every year a great player drops for some unknown reasons. This happens EVERY YEAR. Dan Connor was this years steal in the third round.

Like I said before Ellis may turn out to be pretty good in a few years but Dan Connor was a stud linebacker coming out of Penn State. Connor not only is more ready to start right now than Ellis but he has much more upside as well.

Fact: Dan Connor was one of the fastest of the strong linebackers coming out of college.

Fact: Ellis has good speed compared to most players in his position but he is weak and has character issues.

[SmileBit299]

We didn't give Mitchell a 17 million dollar contract to be a backup.

And, by your own admissions, we have two solid backups that both have starting experience.

1) The best teams play their best players. Plain and simple.

2) If we had Connor we would be playing 4 linebackers much more often than we are right now.

3) There is a BIG difference between "solid backups" and above average starters.

[soflabillsfan]

Pozluzney, Crowell, and Mitchell make a pretty good linebacking core. Our two backups, DiGeorgie and Ellison are solid backups.

We run into two problems though...

1) Crowell will want a big contract at the end of this season. We are a small market team so we will probably say goodbye to him

2) Name me one linebacking core who was healthy for 16 games of the season? Mitchell would have made an excellent backup.

haha. I guess you didn't see docks 49 million dollar deal. Crowell will be extended.

[normaliswear]

Connor not only is more ready to start right now than Ellis but he has much more upside as well.

Fact: Dan Connor was one of the fastest of the strong linebackers coming out of college.


What does it take for you to grasp this? Conner would NOT be starting here right away. He's a middle LB with a great motor, smart player, but average speed and a liability in pass coverage. He doesn't have the tools to slide to OLB and we play a 4-3. Puz was our leading tackler until he went down and will be our middle LB for years. Would have been a nice move to get Conner later if he continued to drop like a rock. But would have been a waste in the 3rd.

[takethebillsandtheover]

Missing on Connor was a HUGE mistake. You take best player available in rounds 3 - 7. Many said that Connor was a better linebackaer than Pozluzney who happened to be a "steal" in the second round last year.

Dan Connor will be a pro bowler a few times in this leage.

Chris Ellis will never be more than a decent rotation player for us.

Terrible pick.

watch some tape of this kid, Ellis is a hybrid...he can drop back in coverage and provide the around the end rush that Kelsay and Denney can't. We addressed our LB situation with Kawika, why waste a valuable 3rd on a reserve LB. Even if he wins a starting job, then we have a valuable player on the bench. Or do you wanna switch to a 3-4 Def? C'mon.

[normaliswear]

1) The best teams play their best players. Plain and simple.

2) If we had Connor we would be playing 4 linebackers much more often than we are right now.

3) There is a BIG difference between "solid backups" and above average starters.

So in your world... the Bills change their ENTIRE defensive scheme based on a 3rd round rookie lb? Unbelievable

[SmileBit299]

What does it take for you to grasp this? Conner would NOT be starting here right away. He's a middle LB with a great motor, smart player, but average speed and a liability in pass coverage. He doesn't have the tools to slide to OLB and we play a 4-3. Puz was our leading tackler until he went down and will be our middle LB for years. Would have been a nice move to get Conner later if he continued to drop like a rock. But would have been a waste in the 3rd.

Do you watch college football at all?

Connor has 10 - 15 lbs on Puz so hes much better with run support.

Connor is faster than Puz.

Connor is an 1.5 inches taller than Puz.

The only reason he fell is because of injuries/bad combine number/character issues.

[SmileBit299]

watch some tape of this kid, Ellis is a hybrid...he can drop back in coverage and provide the around the end rush that Kelsay and Denney can't. We addressed our LB situation with Kawika, why waste a valuable 3rd on a reserve LB. Even if he wins a starting job, then we have a valuable player on the bench. Or do you wanna switch to a 3-4 Def? C'mon.


Look people. Im not saying Ellis will be a bust. He has pretty decent upside. However his downsides are much worse than Connors.

- Ellis has character issues.
- Ellis has injury issues.
- Ellis is weak for his position.
- Ellis wasnt an every down player in college.
- Ellis lacks alot of moves that his peers have.

We drafted him for need and thats a big mistake. Connor will have a much better career for the next 10 years.

[normaliswear]

Do you watch college football at all?

Connor has 10 - 15 lbs on Puz so hes much better with run support.

Connor is faster than Puz.

Connor is an 1.5 inches taller than Puz.

The only reason he fell is because of injuries/bad combine number/character issues.

This starting to get sad now. Let me get this straight. You're saying we either dump Puz... for Conner, who is a liability in pass coverage and sorry, has only decent speed, change our ENTIRE scheme to a 3-4 to accomidate a 3rd round lb, or move Conner to OLB and let Crowell go? Maybe this isn't sad... but it sure is funny. :thumbsup:

[SmileBit299]

So in your world... the Bills change their ENTIRE defensive scheme based on a 3rd round rookie lb? Unbelievable


You dont have to run a 3 - 4 if you want to play 4 linebackers in certain situation.

BIG MISTAKE

[normaliswear]

You dont have to run a 3 - 4 if you want to play 4 linebackers in certain situation.

BIG MISTAKE

You're really grasping for straws now. So we draft a guy for a few plays a game? Over a good player at a need position? :thumbsup:

[soflabillsfan]

Do you watch college football at all?

Connor has 10 - 15 lbs on Puz so hes much better with run support.

Connor is faster than Puz.

Connor is an 1.5 inches taller than Puz.

The only reason he fell is because of injuries/bad combine number/character issues.
Where are you getting your info from? Poz is shorter and weighs more than connor. Their speed is the same.

[SmileBit299]

This starting to get sad now. Let me get this straight. You're saying we either dump Puz... for Conner, who is a liability in pass coverage and sorry, has only decent speed, change our ENTIRE scheme to a 3-4 to accomidate a 3rd round lb, or move Conner to OLB and let Crowell go? Maybe this isn't sad... but it sure is funny. :thumbsup:


Who said dump Puz?

Who said he's a liability in pass coverage? Pass coverage is certainly one of his weakest points but thats because your comparing it to his strengths such as power, speed, and run support.

Who said change our scheme to a 3 - 4?

Who said let Crowell go? I would love to have Crowell but the fact is we dont give big contracts decent players.

[normaliswear]

Who said dump Puz?

Who said he's a liability in pass coverage? Pass coverage is certainly one of his weakest points but thats because your comparing it to his strengths such as power, speed, and run support.

Who said change our scheme to a 3 - 4?

Who said let Crowell go? I would love to have Crowell but the fact is we dont give big contracts decent players.

Then what? If we keep a 4-3... that means 3 lbs.... OLB Mitchell, ILB Puz, OLB Crowell.... Conner goes where?

[SmileBit299]

You're really grasping for straws now. So we draft a guy for a few plays a game? Over a good player at a need position? :thumbsup:

No we draft a future pro bowler for two reasons...

1) No linebacking core stays healthy the entire year.

2) Yes, a few times a game having 4 quality linebackers play in certain situations will only help.

3) Drafting him will let us say goodbye to Crowell more easily.

[SmileBit299]

Where are you getting your info from? Poz is shorter and weighs more than connor. Their speed is the same.


go to scout.com and read their combine numbers.

[normaliswear]

No we draft a future pro bowler for two reasons...

3) Drafting him will let us say goodbye to Crowell more easily.

HOW???? How does taking a backup ILB have ANYTHING to do with losing an OLB??? They are NOT the same position! And link ONE draft grade that says Conner will be a pro bowler. Nobody... except YOU... thinks that. My God... were you kicked in the head by a mule or something????

[JC5]

I think we should have taken the best player avail regardless of position... and that was Dan Connor... Frankly if we do lose Crowell to inj or FA next year I'd rather see Connor in there than Ellison or Digi personally.

Ellis has from everything I've read all sorts of character issues, is lazy and takes plays off. I personally would have liked Connor... but I'm not going to bash management for taking him.


That being said it is kinda surprising to see Manningham go that low to the Gmen just now

[King Alex]

DE was our biggest need by far. We had Schobel, Kelsay & Denney. After that our #4 was Ryan Neill (yes, the long snapper).

You have a great point! :thumbsup:

[SmileBit299]

One more thing...

Why are people saying Dan Connor can only play ILB? A player with his ability can easily switch to outside.

[normaliswear]

One more thing...

Why are people saying Dan Connor can only play ILB? A player with his ability can easily switch to outside.

No... he can't. He doesn't have the speed or especially the pass coverage ability to play outside. He's a pure ILB... a good one... but he absolutely can NOT play on the outside.

[SmileBit299]

HOW???? How does taking a backup ILB have ANYTHING to do with losing an OLB??? They are NOT the same position! And link ONE draft grade that says Conner will be a pro bowler. Nobody... except YOU... thinks that. My God... were you kicked in the head by a mule or something????

When you come out of Penn State as one of the schools best linebackers of all time your probably going to be a pro bowler.

[JC5]

You have a great point! :thumbsup:



however we weren't supposed to be drafting for "need" this year as much as we were supposed to be taking the best player available, and in no ones mind was that Ellis... if we wanted ellis we should have traded down a spot or 10 and then took him (face it he and Cliff Avril aren't a hell of a lot different)

[SmileBit299]

No... he can't. He doesn't have the speed or especially the pass coverage ability to play outside. He's a pure ILB... a good one... but he absolutely can NOT play on the outside.

Do a little research before you start typing...



Teams that could be interested in Dan Connor include the New York Giants, New York Jets, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, Buffalo Bills, and the Arizona Cardinals. More teams would be interested in Conner if he slips into the second round.

Dan Connor is one of the top linebackers in the 2008 NFL draft. His strength is he can play both inside and outside linebacker. He is one of the few linebackers who will be able to start in the NFL. Connor should go late in the first round or in the second round of the draft.

Sources:
NFLdraftscout.com
Foxsports.com

[BuffaloBillsHeart]

Smilebit welcome to the ignore list!

This pick makes ten times more sense than drafting a future backup LB. I mean Dan Connor is a less intelligent and athletic version of Poz, which we don't need one more of.

[normaliswear]

When you come out of Penn State as one of the schools best linebackers of all time your probably going to be a pro bowler.

Thats officially the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted anywhere. His school determines his future production. Guess we should dump Lynch and draft nothing but USC or Syracuse RBs and dump Edwards and draft Miami's QB.

[normaliswear]

Smilebit welcome to the ignore list!

This pick makes ten times more sense than drafting a future backup LB. I mean Dan Connor is a less intelligent and athletic version of Poz, which we don't need one more of.

Thank you... I regret I let myself go on so long with someone as clueless as this guy. Shoulda just hit ignore the minute he started the "pro bowler" crap. Smile... please... for the good of us all. Never post again, about any sport, in any forum.

[ElmwoodFerry]

we have 3 DEs, we need 4. Schobel, Kelsay and Denney all getting up there in age. Not to mention kelsay and Denney coming off injuries.

Our LBs are young and 5 deep. (Crowell, Poz, Mitchell, Ellison, DiGiorgio)

You can be sure that this is exactly how the front office saw it. Linebacker may be the youngest and strongest position on the team, and with the addition of Mitchell and the return of Poz it is already restocked for the coming year, 2 players stronger than last year. Defensive end is the weak link on the defense, and with the suspension of Hargrove is one player down. Only time will tell if Chris Ellis is the man, but this was the right position to fill.

[Gluepig]

Do a little research before you start typing...



Teams that could be interested in Dan Connor include the New York Giants, New York Jets, New England Patriots, New Orleans Saints, Buffalo Bills, and the Arizona Cardinals. More teams would be interested in Conner if he slips into the second round.

Dan Connor is one of the top linebackers in the 2008 NFL draft. His strength is he can play both inside and outside linebacker. He is one of the few linebackers who will be able to start in the NFL. Connor should go late in the first round or in the second round of the draft.

Sources:
NFLdraftscout.com
Foxsports.com

Scouting report per ESPN....

11(74) Carolina Dan Connor ILB PENN STATE
Connor doesn't have elite athletic ability and has problems matching up in man coverage, so he's probably a better fit on the inside. He also has to get stronger at the point of attack. On the other hand, he has excellent instincts, takes great pursuit angles and is a reliable open-field tackler.

Doesn't sound like an instant Pro Bowl outside LB to me....

[SmileBit299]

Thats officially the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted anywhere. His school determines his future production. Guess we should dump Lynch and draft nothing but USC or Syracuse RBs and dump Edwards and draft Miami's QB.

Yes. When USC or Syracuse pumps out one of their best players of all time we better pick them up.

Penn State is a linebacking school. Dan Connor is one of the best they ever had.

[soflabillsfan]

Dan Connor pro day: 6'3 233 4.67 forty
Poz Pro day: 6 1.5 236 4.58 forty

So what are you talking about

http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/profile_display.cfm?Prospect_ID=1198

http://www.chicagobears.com/news/NewsStory.asp?story_id=3208

[Sabinus]

Think for yourself a little bit. Every year a great player drops for some unknown reasons. This happens EVERY YEAR. Dan Connor was this years steal in the third round.

Like I said before Ellis may turn out to be pretty good in a few years but Dan Connor was a stud linebacker coming out of Penn State. Connor not only is more ready to start right now than Ellis but he has much more upside as well.

Fact: Dan Connor was one of the fastest of the strong linebackers coming out of college.

Fact: Ellis has good speed compared to most players in his position but he is weak and has character issues.

Connor maybe more ready to start, but he wouldnt be a starter for us. He would see very little playing time. Ellis will see time at a position of larger need. Connor isnt better than Poz, he isnt better than Crowell, and he isnt better than Mitchell. Ellis steps in immediately as better than Denny. He will see the field on 30% of the defensive plays. Thats why you take him.

[jpschwartz]

Do you watch college football at all?

Connor has 10 - 15 lbs on Puz so hes much better with run support.

Connor is faster than Puz.

Connor is an 1.5 inches taller than Puz.

The only reason he fell is because of injuries/bad combine number/character issues.

So we should bench Poz??????????????????

We are good at LB, we needed a pass-rusher, and we got one. Connor can become a great player, in a team where he could start.

[jpschwartz]

Connor maybe more ready to start, but he wouldnt be a starter for us. He would see very little playing time. Ellis will see time at a position of larger need. Connor isnt better than Poz, he isnt better than Crowell, and he isnt better than Mitchell. Ellis steps in immediately as better than Denny. He will see the field on 30% of the defensive plays. Thats why you take him.

Even Kelsay in a year or two. I like our pick.

[jpschwartz]

Then what? If we keep a 4-3... that means 3 lbs.... OLB Mitchell, ILB Puz, OLB Crowell.... Conner goes where?

mmmmm, easy one. 3+1=3 :drama:

[dinog]

Conner is a BEAST - 415 tackles at PSU; in 2 years he will be better then Crowell. Ellis is not Bruce Smith, he's fast but is weak and has already had 2 surgeries on his right shoulder and does not have the work ethic of Conner.

I don't hate this pick but think Conner had better value. I think 2 years down the line Mitchell, Poz, Conner would have been the premier linbacker trio in the NFL.

[sadsack]

I am ok with this, DE especially pass rusher is a need. He is a little small though and it cost us a chance at a number of TEs.

[soflabillsfan]

We got the compliance linebacker, we don't need Connor.