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Thread: If Fitz goes, so does Steve Johnson's success?

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    stir the pot If Fitz goes, so does Steve Johnson's success?

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    Before you get all upset over this notion realize there is precedent for this type of thing. Many on this board were completely sold Lee Evans was a Elite receiver and just needed a "real" QB to demonstrate that. Most of those people now believe the same about Steve, he is Elite but needs a "real" QB to demonstrate that. Lee went to a team with a real QB and one year later he is no longer in the league. Lee's success was tied to his relationship with a bad QB, Losman. Similarly Steve has developed a good on field working relationship with Fitz. Fitz throws to him often knowing Steve will be where he is supposed to be. Take Steve's success against Revis, most "real" QB's won't even make the throws Fitz is willing to make against him. I am not saying Steve and Lee are the same type of receivers, they are not at all but that does not mean they cant have a symbiotic relationship even if Fitz is a bad QB. Steve does not have any kind of speed, he is shifty gets open for a short period of time and Fitz has the confidence in him to throw it there. It is obvious even Steve believes he will have less success without Fitz based on him resigning with the Bills and his words. He obviously believes his success is tied directly to Fitz.

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    Stevie is wide open on almost every play. I think tyat says all you need to know.
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    How is getting a QB that can throw farther then 5 yards accurately and actually throw a deep ball once in a while actually make a guy who gets open all the time worse? Lee Evans has nothing to do with anything he went to flacco... only had 4 receptions with Baltimore his situation is his own fault in why he fell off the earth.

    Most good QB would make throws to the guy Revis is covering IF he is open... just not many get open like SJ does.
    Revis will also be losing a step after this latest injury now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMBNix View Post
    How is getting a QB that can throw farther then 5 yards accurately and actually throw a deep ball once in a while actually make a guy who gets open all the time worse? Lee Evans has nothing to do with anything he went to flacco... only had 4 receptions with Baltimore his situation is his own fault in why he fell off the earth.

    Most good QB would make throws to the guy Revis is covering IF he is open... just not many get open like SJ does.
    Revis will also be losing a step after this latest injury now.
    I disagree, how quickly we forget. The captain of not throwing 5 yards down the field is Trent Edwards, this is the SAME EXACT argument made why Lee was not more successful. I am not saying Fitz is a great QB or anything but his skill set matches Steve's quite well. Steve is not a burner, he gets open on mostly short routes and has a good ability to get YAC. Most gameplans use the guy Revis is covering as a 3rd option, this is backed up by analysis on ESPN and NFL network. I contend that Steve's success against Revis is more due to Fitz's decisions to throw to him when Revis is covering. And his success is not all that great anyway. Against other CB's it would be an OK day, but an OK day against Revis is considered amazing.

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    If Stevie Johnson had a better QB throwing him the football, his numbers would skyrocket.
    ''You appease (fans) for about three months,'' Nix said. ~ 11/2/2012

    Chan Gailey 12/26/2010 - Pass rush would of helped a couple of those. That guy (Tom Brady) stood back there forever and someone finally come open.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Russian View Post
    I disagree, how quickly we forget. The captain of not throwing 5 yards down the field is Trent Edwards, this is the SAME EXACT argument made why Lee was not more successful. I am not saying Fitz is a great QB or anything but his skill set matches Steve's quite well. Steve is not a burner, he gets open on mostly short routes and has a good ability to get YAC. Most gameplans use the guy Revis is covering as a 3rd option, this is backed up by analysis on ESPN and NFL network. I contend that Steve's success against Revis is more due to Fitz's decisions to throw to him when Revis is covering. And his success is not all that great anyway. Against other CB's it would be an OK day, but an OK day against Revis is considered amazing.
    His success is not all that great b.c of his QB. Stop talking about Lee he is not a very good receiver he had like 1-2 good years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Russian View Post
    Before you get all upset over this notion realize there is precedent for this type of thing. Many on this board were completely sold Lee Evans was a Elite receiver and just needed a "real" QB to demonstrate that. Most of those people now believe the same about Steve, he is Elite but needs a "real" QB to demonstrate that. Lee went to a team with a real QB and one year later he is no longer in the league. Lee's success was tied to his relationship with a bad QB, Losman. Similarly Steve has developed a good on field working relationship with Fitz. Fitz throws to him often knowing Steve will be where he is supposed to be. Take Steve's success against Revis, most "real" QB's won't even make the throws Fitz is willing to make against him. I am not saying Steve and Lee are the same type of receivers, they are not at all but that does not mean they cant have a symbiotic relationship even if Fitz is a bad QB. Steve does not have any kind of speed, he is shifty gets open for a short period of time and Fitz has the confidence in him to throw it there. It is obvious even Steve believes he will have less success without Fitz based on him resigning with the Bills and his words. He obviously believes his success is tied directly to Fitz.
    Hog wash statement. What have you been watching. Steve is wide open 70% of the time and crapatrick doesnt see him or under or overthrows him ALOT. Hands down Steves numbers would flourish with a NFL QB it is insane to think otherwise. Crapatrick must go asap end of story.

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    comparing lee evans to stevie johnson is INSANE stevie has a much better skill set. stevie is a much better receiver as time goes on and with an even better qb than fitz he will just keep getting better.....
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    This just in..............................THIS BOY NAMED STEVIE IS NOT ELITE.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NHNEPATFAN View Post
    This just in..............................THIS BOY NAMED STEVIE IS NOT ELITE.
    Pats fan... yea OK. Wonder why you would ever make a name on the Bills forums and post here like once a week to troll just enough to stay under the radar of the mods.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Russian View Post
    I disagree, how quickly we forget. The captain of not throwing 5 yards down the field is Trent Edwards, this is the SAME EXACT argument made why Lee was not more successful. I am not saying Fitz is a great QB or anything but his skill set matches Steve's quite well. Steve is not a burner, he gets open on mostly short routes and has a good ability to get YAC. Most gameplans use the guy Revis is covering as a 3rd option, this is backed up by analysis on ESPN and NFL network. I contend that Steve's success against Revis is more due to Fitz's decisions to throw to him when Revis is covering. And his success is not all that great anyway. Against other CB's it would be an OK day, but an OK day against Revis is considered amazing.

    The big difference between Stevie now and Evans when we traded him is the fact that Lee struggled to get open even a few times a game. Stevie seems to be open almost every play no matter who is covering him. The reason for that is that Lee was a burner while Stevie is a route runner. Different styles, and as long as Stevie can continue to out think his opponants he will be a viable threat, which leads to a longer more productive career because he doesnt rely on pure speed to get the job done. This is how he was able to get a 1000 yard season with a badly injured groin. With a QB that can make the throws he needs to, he will be more productive because it opens up even more options for stevie because deep routes arent out of the question like yhey are now.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Russian View Post
    I disagree, how quickly we forget. The captain of not throwing 5 yards down the field is Trent Edwards, this is the SAME EXACT argument made why Lee was not more successful. I am not saying Fitz is a great QB or anything but his skill set matches Steve's quite well. Steve is not a burner, he gets open on mostly short routes and has a good ability to get YAC. Most gameplans use the guy Revis is covering as a 3rd option, this is backed up by analysis on ESPN and NFL network. I contend that Steve's success against Revis is more due to Fitz's decisions to throw to him when Revis is covering. And his success is not all that great anyway. Against other CB's it would be an OK day, but an OK day against Revis is considered amazing.
    Lol, Lee was well past his prime...If he were to have a top notch QB during his prime years, he would have been one of the best big play receivers in the game.

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by MarioBilliams View Post
    comparing lee evans to stevie johnson is INSANE stevie has a much better skill set. stevie is a much better receiver as time goes on and with an even better qb than fitz he will just keep getting better.....
    I don't believe you read the post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
    The big difference between Stevie now and Evans when we traded him is the fact that Lee struggled to get open even a few times a game. Stevie seems to be open almost every play no matter who is covering him. The reason for that is that Lee was a burner while Stevie is a route runner. Different styles, and as long as Stevie can continue to out think his opponants he will be a viable threat, which leads to a longer more productive career because he doesnt rely on pure speed to get the job done. This is how he was able to get a 1000 yard season with a badly injured groin. With a QB that can make the throws he needs to, he will be more productive because it opens up even more options for stevie because deep routes arent out of the question like yhey are now.
    Speaking the truth...
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Quote Originally Posted by billsballer311 View Post
    Lol, Lee was well past his prime...If he were to have a top notch QB during his prime years, he would have been one of the best big play receivers in the game.

    Go Bills!!!
    What? Lee is 31 TODAY

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Russian View Post
    What? Lee is 31 TODAY
    I'll say it again, he was past HIS prime

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Quote Originally Posted by HiddenInLight View Post
    The big difference between Stevie now and Evans when we traded him is the fact that Lee struggled to get open even a few times a game. Stevie seems to be open almost every play no matter who is covering him. The reason for that is that Lee was a burner while Stevie is a route runner. Different styles, and as long as Stevie can continue to out think his opponants he will be a viable threat, which leads to a longer more productive career because he doesnt rely on pure speed to get the job done. This is how he was able to get a 1000 yard season with a badly injured groin. With a QB that can make the throws he needs to, he will be more productive because it opens up even more options for stevie because deep routes arent out of the question like yhey are now.
    I agree with your assessment of Steve's style but all this talk about him always being open is kinda BS. No one is open as much as is being talked about on this board. Fitz while bad, is not THAT bad and if he was open so much Steve would have 400 yards by now. I mean now that his badly injured groin is repaired and healthy he is having less success? He is not on pace for 1000 yards this year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billsballer311 View Post
    I'll say it again, he was past HIS prime

    Go Bills!!!
    Complete nonsense, this is all you have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Russian View Post
    Complete nonsense, this is all you have?
    This is what I believe, its not nonsense, his numbers were dwindling when he was here too. Sorry man, he just wasn't what he used to be when he first go here.

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Black_Russian View Post
    I agree with your assessment of Steve's style but all this talk about him always being open is kinda BS. No one is open as much as is being talked about on this board. Fitz while bad, is not THAT bad and if he was open so much Steve would have 400 yards by now. I mean now that his badly injured groin is repaired and healthy he is having less success? He is not on pace for 1000 yards this year.
    When you have a QB that can't throw farther then 5 yards that kind of tells you why he doesn't have 400 yards. Fitz not being accurate and only being trusted to throw screens is why SJ13 isn't doing well.

    They said this about Vick which holds true to Fitz. The coach is giving Vick quick passes dump off reads b.c they are trying to protect his deficiencies. The same about Fitz he cannot throw so the coach is trying to protect his deficiencies which hurts the rest of the team.

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