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Thread: LISTEN, if you don't understand how pivitol the QB position is, look no further than

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Matrix View Post
    This is football, friend. Look beyond stats.

    Carolina has lost two games on last second field goals. One of those last second field goals came when the opposing team was pinned at their 1 with a minute to play. The other game when the defense, again, gave up a long game winning drive.

    Carolina has attempted the third fewest passes in the NFL. Yet it's a pass happy offense. And you tell me to research. The irony. Guess how many of those yards are Cam's? Almost 400-more than anyone else on the team. Their All Pro centre is done for the year. As is their Pro Bowl MLB and CB. They've given him one great WR and a bunch of scrubs to throw to while being protected by Geoff Hangartner and Byron Bell.

    Pathetic attempt, kid. Unless you care to explain to me how a team that's attempted the third fewest passes in the league is pass heavy?
    So what are you saying here? That Cam isnt Clutch? Did one of those last second field goals come after an INT? Ok

    Fact is that this message board thinks QB saves all. Carolina has been bigger losers then us. Our defense is ranked last friend... dead last. Their defense is ranked 14th. Doesnt matter how many points you put up if your defense ranks last.

    We need a new QB for sure (just to be clear on my position) but it isnt going to solve all our problems. Cam would have been run out of town here.

  2. #22
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    First round QB is a crap shoot and it's a gamble this team should take. What have they got to lose besides more games, which will happen anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Matrix View Post
    This is football, friend. Look beyond stats.

    Carolina has lost two games on last second field goals. One of those last second field goals came when the opposing team was pinned at their 1 with a minute to play. The other game when the defense, again, gave up a long game winning drive.

    Carolina has attempted the third fewest passes in the NFL. Yet it's a pass happy offense. And you tell me to research. The irony. Guess how many of those yards are Cam's? Almost 400-more than anyone else on the team. Their All Pro centre is done for the year. As is their Pro Bowl MLB and CB. They've given him one great WR and a bunch of scrubs to throw to while being protected by Geoff Hangartner and Byron Bell.

    Pathetic attempt, kid. Unless you care to explain to me how a team that's attempted the third fewest passes in the league is pass heavy?
    What diff does it make....the OP was talking about how a QB changes everything meaning wins and loses.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buffalo View Post
    First round QB is a crap shoot and it's a gamble this team should take. What have they got to lose besides more games, which will happen anyway.
    Because the people who actually get paid for this know QB is not our biggest problem and why draft one to waste him with a bad defense ? Manti TE'O should be what we look at....the next Ray Lewis ....and someone to inject energy and attitude to our defense

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuboirs View Post
    Because the people who actually get paid for this know QB is not our biggest problem and why draft one to waste him with a bad defense ? Manti TE'O should be what we look at....the next Ray Lewis ....and someone to inject energy and attitude to our defense
    I would have agreed with you a few years ago.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7975 View Post
    So what are you saying here? That Cam isnt Clutch? Did one of those last second field goals come after an INT? Ok

    Fact is that this message board thinks QB saves all. Carolina has been bigger losers then us. Our defense is ranked last friend... dead last. Their defense is ranked 14th. Doesnt matter how many points you put up if your defense ranks last.

    We need a new QB for sure (just to be clear on my position) but it isnt going to solve all our problems. Cam would have been run out of town here.
    Cam is an insanely exciting QB. Sports are entertainment. It doesn't even matter if you disagree. As a whole fans will like a guy that is fun to watch. Fitz is not fun to watch. It's frustrating watching him miss open receivers and not throw downfield. It's fun watching Cam complete an 82 yard pass and then run up the middle like Peterson for six.

    Fitz sucking and the defense sucking are not mutually exclusive. That said, if I'm losing anyway I want to lose with a guy that's fun as hell to watch. And that's not to even scratch on the surface of potential. Fitz won't get better. He is what he is. Cam might not get better. But he also might.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cuboirs View Post
    What diff does it make....the OP was talking about how a QB changes everything meaning wins and loses.....
    Which is a statement I refuse to discuss. Using critical thinking and common sense will tell you what the answer to that conundrum is, and those that are wrong are so stuck in their ways they'll never see their way out of it. But I follow every-single-team in the NFL. It's not just me assuming anything. When I see someone make a factually false statement I address it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GodZnKingZ View Post

    Now, to address your point.....when you have a YOUNG QB who shows PROMISE (Luck, Griffin, Newton, Wilson) then you have POTENTIAL......Fitz is a 8 year vet....he doesn't have the luxury of the potential excuse.
    Right on---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuboirs View Post
    If it doesn't excuse FITZ why should it for Cam??? Absolutely not an excuse we have the worst defense in the NFL
    Cam is in year 2, Fitz is in year 8. Cam has all the potential in the world...Fitz has pathetically peaked. Comparisons are ignorant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott7975 View Post
    We need a new QB for sure (just to be clear on my position) but it isnt going to solve all our problems. Cam would have been run out of town here.
    Come on man really?
    Everyone knows this team needs and needs but fans want a QB something they know will help complete this team to where they see a future because with Fitz it looks like the team is going to leave in the night and be gone while we have Fitz and Thig sitting on our steps telling us its cold outside can we come in.
    Cam would have not been run out of town your way off on the fans of Buffalo. We want a top prospect that has that fire to win, that fire to be great. With fitz there is no fire, there is no hope there is no chance and now there is no TDs. The fans feed off of that fire, that will, the unknown.

    OBD cant give us a guy like Kelly that took over the AFC in the SB years and then replace him with nothing but Frank Reichs. No hate on Frank I love ya man but Without Kellys talent we would have never made the SBs over and over again.
    Last edited by adrenaline; 11-04-2012 at 11:12 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imgodshand View Post
    imagine we gave up 2 first round picks for a qb and we started off 3-6, everybody would want his head. buffalo can not get a franchise qb because the fans are so frustrated from years of losing that they won't give any qb a chance.

    we need to draft a qb and let him sit behind fitz for at least a year, probably 2. .
    This is not true, with rookies there is growing pains. Don't try to label the fans like that your way off on your attack on Buffalo fans.

    2 more seasons of the Fitz??? Have you gone mad?? Come on man most fans can't even watch this season who the hell is going to go pay to watch Fitz fail next season? Expect blackouts until Fitz is gone end if story. 2 more seasons of the Fitz and there will be no fans left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by imgodshand View Post
    the redskins are 3-6, now imagine we gave up 2 first round picks for a qb and we started off 3-6, everybody would want his head. buffalo can not get a franchise qb because the fans are so frustrated from years of losing that they won't give any qb a chance. just look how every qb has left buffalo in the last 10 years. since bledsoe was replaced with losman every qb hasnt had a real chance to become a great qb. sometimes it takes a qb 3-4 years to develop into a franchise qb. just look at drew brees, eli manning, aaron rodgers, there are more but that was just off the top of my head. fans are delusional if they think getting a new qb and throwing him in there is what this team needs.

    we need to draft a qb and let him sit behind fitz for at least a year, probably 2. that is probably what nix had in mind when he extend fitz.
    Not really you see the way the kid plays? Even on games he loses he still gives you hope for the future of the team. Did you ever feel that with Fitz?

    You just don't sit QBs like that you start them. This is not old NFL this is the new play your way out of the league. They draft a QB then draft another just to sit on him in case the starter doesn't pan out. Or they look for suckers like the Bills to go grab them after seeing a good game. Seahawks did that and drafted a QB and the guy they drafted started week 1.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Matrix View Post
    Cam is an insanely exciting QB. Sports are entertainment. It doesn't even matter if you disagree. As a whole fans will like a guy that is fun to watch. Fitz is not fun to watch. It's frustrating watching him miss open receivers and not throw downfield. It's fun watching Cam complete an 82 yard pass and then run up the middle like Peterson for six.

    Fitz sucking and the defense sucking are not mutually exclusive. That said, if I'm losing anyway I want to lose with a guy that's fun as hell to watch. And that's not to even scratch on the surface of potential. Fitz won't get better. He is what he is. Cam might not get better. But he also might.
    Right on..

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    Quote Originally Posted by GMBNix View Post
    Not really you see the way the kid plays? Even on games he loses he still gives you hope for the future of the team. Did you ever feel that with Fitz?

    You just don't sit QBs like that you start them. This is not old NFL this is the new play your way out of the league. They draft a QB then draft another just to sit on him in case the starter doesn't pan out. Or they look for suckers like the Bills to go grab them after seeing a good game. Seahawks did that and drafted a QB and the guy they drafted started week 1.
    Right on,,

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    As far as I can tell the only position in the past ten years drafted in the first round without a bust is K (Raiders drafted Janakowski) So we should draft a kicker beacause it would be risk free right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cuboirs View Post
    Carolina drafted Cam Newton 1st overall what has that done for them? Detroit drafted 2 in Joey Harrington then Matt Stafford ? St. Louis Sam Bradford ? Tennessee Jake Locker?

    Not saying we shouldn't but it guarantees ABSOLUTLY NOTHING! Ex: Ryan Leaf,Alex Smith,David Carr,Akili Smith,Jamarcus Russell etc.
    Oh so since there isn't a 100% positive turnout with every single QB drafted in the first means a QB isn't important? Why don't you go back and look at the draft rounds of the Super Bowl winning QB's.
    SIGNATURE
    Quote Originally Posted by muffman View Post
    Arent you the guy who said the Bills drafted EJ Manuel so they could "sell him in the americas, africa and the middle east?"
    LMAO....
    Quote Originally Posted by TAPITSB View Post
    No I said if he becomes a star he has more international AD ability than Tom Brady. I was talking about how the black athlete is marketed internationally.
    Quote Originally Posted by TAPITSB View Post
    Brady isn't Manuel and as stated the media tends to take a man like Manuel because they can sell him in all of the America's and Africa and the Middle East and not just in the United States.

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Matrix View Post
    This is football, friend. Look beyond stats.

    Carolina has lost two games on last second field goals. One of those last second field goals came when the opposing team was pinned at their 1 with a minute to play. The other game when the defense, again, gave up a long game winning drive.

    Carolina has attempted the third fewest passes in the NFL. Yet it's a pass happy offense. And you tell me to research. The irony. Guess how many of those yards are Cam's? Almost 400-more than anyone else on the team. Their All Pro centre is done for the year. As is their Pro Bowl MLB and CB. They've given him one great WR and a bunch of scrubs to throw to while being protected by Geoff Hangartner and Byron Bell.

    Pathetic attempt, kid. Unless you care to explain to me how a team that's attempted the third fewest passes in the league is pass heavy?
    You were so nice with your answer to him but it was dead on

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodZnKingZ View Post
    My man....for future reference, I don't think you want to EVER compare J.P. Losman, Kelly Holcomb, Trent Edwards & Ryan Fitzpatrick to Drew Brees, Eli Manning & Aaron Rodgers.

    Now, to address your point.....when you have a YOUNG QB who shows PROMISE (Luck, Griffin, Newton, Wilson) then you have POTENTIAL......Fitz is a 8 year vet....he doesn't have the luxury of the potential excuse.

    There is a bizarre feeling on these boards that mentioning two things in the same paragraph together is comparing them. It's not.

    He didn't compare them.

    More, there's nothing wrong with comparing, say, JP Losman and Joe Montana. Wannna see me do it? Both JP Losman and Joe Montana are human beings. Joe Montana is a better quarterback than Joe Montana. See? I compared them, and it made sense. There's nothing wrong with comparing very unlike things. Now, granted, if I say that Losman was nearly as good as Montana I'm making a fool of myself, but just because I'm mentioning the two together doesn't mean I'm automatically wrong.

    Stop with the "don't compare the two" when they're mentioned in the same breath.

    This isn't aimed at you particularly, Godz, there's a weird thing on this whole board where people stop thinking the minute you mention two unlike people in the same post. it doesn't make sense.
    Last edited by Thurman#1; 11-05-2012 at 12:41 AM.

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    The Andrew Luck's Tom Brady's, and Peyton Manning's of the world are generational players, very rare. Even if the Bills finally select a QB in the first round there are little guarantees he will be close to those players.
    What would you be doing if nothing were impossible...

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    Quote Originally Posted by GodZnKingZ View Post
    The Colts

    2010 record 10-6....starting QB Peyton Manning
    2011 record 2-14....starting QB Curtis Painter
    2012 record 5-3.....starting QB Andew Luck

    New GM this year (Ryan Grigson)
    New HC this year (Chuck Pagano)
    New Offensive coordinator (Bruce Arians who is currently coaching in Pagano's place)

    Buddy said change will set us back...a real franchise QB can make a difference. How did the Colts D look last year?

    We are on our way to another losing season.....the constants really need to be evaluated @ seasons end.
    They also switched to a 3-4 as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eregitano View Post
    The Andrew Luck's Tom Brady's, and Peyton Manning's of the world are generational players, very rare. Even if the Bills finally select a QB in the first round there are little guarantees he will be close to those players.


    In terms of the argument being made in this thread, your argument makes sense. Luck is going to be in the running for elite, and very soon. That's a lot of the reason for this turnaround.

    But it's worth remembering you don't need a Luck or Brady or Manning to have a good chance at the Super Bowl fairly consistently. If you've got one of the top eight or so guys, you're in there with a chance. Eli is not one of the top three or four guys. Neither in Roethlisberger. You need a guy in the top eight or so, the top 25% in the league. And the only way to get one of those guys is to try, and then to do your best to support the guy you got with good players around him as he goes through his growing pains, and not to worry about the moans of the fans, who will undoubtedly be screaming for him to be thrown out by the end of his second year if he's playing as poorly as Drew Brees and Eli Manning and Aaron Rodgers were playing in their second years.

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