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Thread: John Murphy on the Pittsburgh loss when we had a chance at playoffs.

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    Default John Murphy on the Pittsburgh loss when we had a chance at playoffs.

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    On the John Murphy show last night, Murphy threw out the question: What is it going to take for you to get on board? A caller had called in and sited the playoff loss to the Steelers 8 years ago and John Murphys response was perfect:

    "That was 8 years ago, I don't know what application it has to this year" "Thats 3 head coaches ago"

    This echoes what I've been saying for a while now. The past does not predict the future. People want to look back at games years ago, or even games earlier this year. The NFL is not static, it is, in fact, very dynamic. The team from 8 years ago has been completely turned over. There is no link between that team and this team. Not only are we different from 8 years ago but the NFL is very dynamic, in that teams can get hot and get better as the season unfolds. Teams that looked like they were out of it in the early part of the season, suddenly are in the playoff race because they've gotten hot and won a few games. Those negative nancys, who take the soothsayer's approach and see in their crystal ball are likely basing their views on what's happened in the past, and saying that there's no way we could make the playoffs. Well, I see progress, especially from the defense. Who's to say the Bills can't get hot and rattle off win after win like the Az Cardinals did when they made it to the Super Bowl?

    I get it though, we've had a rough time of it for more than a decade. Its easy to be pessimistic, but we're all fans here and we all (as much as some say they want to suck for a good prospect) want the Bills to do well, and we want to see them make the playoffs. So why attack those who are optimistic?

    So please, put to rest all the arguments that we can't do it because our past says we can't. John Murphy illustrates what fans should understand, the past doesn't predict the future, especially in the NFL. Too much parody! John is usually very rosy in his assessment of the Bills but, on this occasion, he's spot on.

    With that said, next game Colts, lets break em in!

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Sweet answer by John. Personally I haven't missed a game yet. Each game I always have hope. I've seen some pretty bad play this season though. It's sometimes hard as a fan who's seen mediocrity for the past 14 years to be optimistic. Especially when we're sitting at 4-6 and haven't beaten a team with a winning record yet. I think the Bills need to win against the Colts without making too many mistakes. They need to beat up on the Colts and make them look bad in order for most of the fans to finally get on board. It may take at least 2 more wins for most fans to get on board. The issue is we're all gun shy. We've seen this team blow a 5-1 record and end 6-10. So sitting 4-6 we all know has potential to be 5-11. But hey lets hope we get to that 10-6 mark! 1 game at a time!
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    I think our remaining schedule is a bit harder this yr than our remainingschedule in 04. That was a really good team we had in 04 that blew the first 4 games to start 0-4. Fact of the matter is, the 04 team should've bbeen 2-2 rather than 0-4 to start. This wouldn't even be a discussion had the bills wpn 1 of those first 4 games in 2004

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    Quote Originally Posted by God Father View Post
    Sweet answer by John. Personally I haven't missed a game yet. Each game I always have hope. I've seen some pretty bad play this season though. It's sometimes hard as a fan who's seen mediocrity for the past 14 years to be optimistic. Especially when we're sitting at 4-6 and haven't beaten a team with a winning record yet. I think the Bills need to win against the Colts without making too many mistakes. They need to beat up on the Colts and make them look bad in order for most of the fans to finally get on board. It may take at least 2 more wins for most fans to get on board. The issue is we're all gun shy. We've seen this team blow a 5-1 record and end 6-10. So sitting 4-6 we all know has potential to be 5-11. But hey lets hope we get to that 10-6 mark! 1 game at a time!
    Yeah, I can understand the pessimism, but cmon, this is our team. Lets back them on the home stretch!

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    There will be a lot of fans who are in the I won't believe it until it actually happens.

    Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

    There are also numerous connections to that team, that Murphy is ignoring. Ralph Wilson, Russ Brandon, Chris Kelsey etc.

    I am personally a believer we can do it. But for a majority of people on BBMB, it's put your money where you're mouth is, and until then, they will deem it impossible.
    2013 Adopt a Bill---Chris Hairston



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    Quote Originally Posted by vegasloveforthebills View Post
    There will be a lot of fans who are in the I won't believe it until it actually happens.

    Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

    There are also numerous connections to that team, that Murphy is ignoring. Ralph Wilson, Russ Brandon, Chris Kelsey etc.

    I am personally a believer we can do it. But for a majority of people on BBMB, it's put your money where you're mouth is, and until then, they will deem it impossible.
    "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it"

    I'm well aware of this quote, but I'm not so sure it applies to the NFL. The NFL is what's hot now league. Today its all about passing, just about 5 years ago it was all about a big time run game. The NFL is constantly changing to where the past doesn't matter compared to what's happening today. Not only is it a new team with new coaches and new players with barely any connection to 2004, but the NFL itself has completely changed.

    That quote is a good thing to take into consideration in many instances, particularly in international affairs, I just don't know how much it truly applies to the always changing world of the NFL.

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Quote Originally Posted by billsballer311 View Post
    "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it"

    I'm well aware of this quote, but I'm not so sure it applies to the NFL. The NFL is what's hot now league. Today its all about passing, just about 5 years ago it was all about a big time run game. The NFL is constantly changing to where the past doesn't matter compared to what's happening today. Not only is it a new team with new coaches and new players with barely any connection to 2004, but the NFL itself has completely changed.

    That quote is a good thing to take into consideration in many instances, particularly in international affairs, I just don't know how much it truly applies to the always changing world of the NFL.

    Go Bills!!!
    No offense, people will just use last year as an example. When they started 5-2, people where all over this board saying, that collapse won't happen again. Chan is better that Jauron, Fitz isn't Trent, Wilson is an upgrade over Whitner. It will never happen again. Believe me, I was one of the people saying feeling this.

    Boom, it happened again. Major collapse.

    Like I said, I am a believer we can run the table this year and make the playoffs. I am not trying to argue. Just illustrating why so many negative people will insist they know more about the Bills than an optimist.

    I have watched sports for 25+ years, I have seen crazy things happen. I am a true believer you are not done until the math says you're done

    Ask the 2008 Colorado Rockies about not having a chance to make the playoffs before you are truly eliminated.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vegasloveforthebills View Post
    No offense, people will just use last year as an example. When they started 5-2, people where all over this board saying, that collapse won't happen again. Chan is better that Jauron, Fitz isn't Trent, Wilson is an upgrade over Whitner. It will never happen again. Believe me, I was one of the people saying feeling this.

    Boom, it happened again. Major collapse.

    Like I said, I am a believer we can run the table this year and make the playoffs. I am not trying to argue. Just illustrating why so many negative people will insist they know more about the Bills than an optimist.

    I have watched sports for 25+ years, I have seen crazy things happen. I am a true believer you are not done until the math says you're done

    Ask the 2008 Colorado Rockies about not having a chance to make the playoffs before you are truly eliminated.
    No argument, just intelligent conversation!

    As I said in my original post, I understand the pessimism because of our past. However, I am a big time believer that the past does not predict the future. Who's to say we don't get hot? You bring up good points, I just believe that the NFL is so fluid, things change in a matter of a week or two. Very bipolar but makes it very exciting. People can't write the Bills off completely because, as you say, we're mathematically in this. I believe, that if we win out, we'll make the playoffs. That's a tall order, but like I have been saying, anything can happen.

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Quote Originally Posted by billsballer311 View Post
    No argument, just intelligent conversation!

    As I said in my original post, I understand the pessimism because of our past. However, I am a big time believer that the past does not predict the future. Who's to say we don't get hot? You bring up good points, I just believe that the NFL is so fluid, things change in a matter of a week or two. Very bipolar but makes it very exciting. People can't write the Bills off completely because, as you say, we're mathematically in this. I believe, that if we win out, we'll make the playoffs. That's a tall order, but like I have been saying, anything can happen.

    Go Bills!!!
    I also believe more people will get on board each week if they keep winning. But unfortunately, there will still be those few people who until we beat Miami and NYJ, won't ever believe Gailey and Fitz can beat division opponents consistently.
    2013 Adopt a Bill---Chris Hairston



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    Bump for the lunch crowd...

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Sadly I had some Steelers fans with me at that game. I still don't understand how we lost to Tommy Maddox.

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    I believe there is something to the BELIEF in the concept of the past affecting the future. When you are perceived as NOT a winner, other folks have a TENDENCY to treat you as a loser. “UNTIL” you can prove that you are not “that”, even proving to YOURSELF, then it is very hard and very difficult to WIN, when “others” expect you to lose. I believe that is WHY Ryan Fitzpatrick didn't make that play in New England to win that game in THAT SITUATION. Why? PAST HISTORY of being a Bill was on his mind while he was trying to make the play and was in NEW TERRITORY (having the opportunity to bury the Patriots) but PAST HISTORY karma intervened and the ball ended up looking like Ryan Fitzpatrick was throwing to a GHOST. That ghost was the Bills PAST HISTORY. In order for this current team to win and move forward, the GHOST OF THE BILLS PAST HISTORY has to be "exorcised". And WINNING is the only cure. When fighting the ghosts of a losing past is always on YOUR MIND, as a franchise, as a team, as "players", as FANS and as a NATION; winning is VERY HARD.

    That is what I think the caller was talking about. He didn't mean that the players from 2004 were actually there to affect the Bills to cause them to fall into a losing skid like in 2004. He meant the GHOST of past history LOSSES can keep the current team from breaking out to VICTORY, if the Bills allow it to, rather than defeating JUST THE PLAYERS on the field that they face THIS GAME. But, regardless, at least the Bills won't lose more than SIX games "STRAIGHT" this year and that is a POSITIVE that can be "built" upon.

    Also, the Bills will have to be aware of the OFFICIALS. Because when the OFFICIALS perceive you to be NOT a winner; then they have NO PROBLEMS dropping the penalty flags on you, since nobody in the NATION is going to complain when losers lose. It is unfortunate, but that is the way it is. That is why the Bills will have to KEEP THE GAME out of the OFFICIALS hands. For if the Bills allow the OFFICIALS to decide a game; the Bills will lose, especially against a WINNING team.
    Last edited by AlabamaWCH; 11-21-2012 at 12:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaWCH View Post
    I believe there is something to the BELIEF in the concept of the past affecting the future. When you are perceived as NOT a winner, other folks have a TENDENCY to treat you as a loser. “UNTIL” you can prove that you are not “that”, even proving to YOURSELF, then it is very hard and very difficult to WIN, when “others” expect you to lose. I believe that is WHY Ryan Fitzpatrick didn't make that play in New England to win that game in THAT SITUATION. Why? PAST HISTORY of being a Bill was on his mind while he was trying to make the play and was in NEW TERRITORY (having the opportunity to bury the Patriots) but PAST HISTORY karma intervened and the ball ended up looking like Ryan Fitzpatrick was throwing to a GHOST. That ghost was the Bills PAST HISTORY. In order for this current team to win and move forward, the GHOST OF THE BILLS PAST HISTORY has to be "exorcised". And WINNING is the only cure. When fighting the ghosts of a losing past is always on YOUR MIND, as a franchise, as a team, as FANS and as a NATION; winning is VERY HARD.

    That is what I think the caller was talking about. He didn't mean that the players from 2004 were actually there to affect the Bills to cause them to fall into a losing skid like in 2004. He meant the GHOST of past history LOSSES can keep the current team from breaking out to VICTORY, if the Bills allow it to, rather than defeating JUST THE PLAYERS on the field that they face THIS GAME. But, regardless, at least the Bills won't lose more than SIX games this year and that is a POSITIVE.

    Also, the Bills will have to be aware of the OFFICIALS. Because when the OFFICIALS perceive you to be NOT a winner; then they have NO PROBLEMS dropping the penalty flags on you, since nobody in the NATION is going to complain when losers lose. It is unfortunate, but that is the way it is. That is why the Bills will have to KEEP THE GAME out of the OFFICIALS hands. For if the Bills allow the OFFICIALS to decide a game; the Bills will lose, especially against a WINNING team.
    This, to me, is ridiculous. This whole "creating a losing environment" is purpetrated by the media and completely blown out of proportion. You honestly think, because of years of not having a winning season, that ONE play against the Patriots was forgone? What sense does that make? These guys are professionals, they don't really care what happened 8 years ago, they care what's happening in front of them. The past has nothing to do with that single play.

    I will agree that winning is the cure all, but to say that the past is weighing on every players mind on every play is absolute horse pucky and has no weight to it. The caller was wrong, and John Murphy was right. The past has nothing to do with this season.

    Do you believe that Santa is real, or the tooth fairy? You seem like the kind of guy that would believe this.

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Who's better, Kelley Holcomb or Trent Edwards? Or JP LOLsman? Does it really matter?

    I'll agree, they are in fact three completely different players, but they both give you the same result: a sub-.500 season. The point I'm trying to make is that just because that loss was eight years ago doesn't mean it (and other seasons like that one) doesn't apply. If we (Ralph) keep employing a very similar strategy to the one we used back then (weak QBs, lackluster defensive players, bottom half of the league in payroll, etc) we should expect very similar results. Yes, it was in fact eight years ago, but nothing about us has really changed. YES, the players and front office are technically different people, but in terms of caliber and skill level they're essentially equivalent. So to reference that game and say it's completely meaningless is a bit dismissive of the current (and past) implications.

    Isn't insanity the act of doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrath of Wilson View Post
    Who's better, Kelley Holcomb or Trent Edwards? Or JP LOLsman? Does it really matter?

    I'll agree, they are in fact three completely different players, but they both give you the same result: a sub-.500 season. The point I'm trying to make is that just because that loss was eight years ago doesn't mean it (and other seasons like that one) doesn't apply. If we (Ralph) keep employing a very similar strategy to the one we used back then (weak QBs, lackluster defensive players, bottom half of the league in payroll, etc) we should expect very similar results. Yes, it was in fact eight years ago, but nothing about us has really changed. YES, the players and front office are technically different people, but in terms of caliber and skill level they're essentially equivalent. So to reference that game and say it's completely meaningless is a bit dismissive of the current (and past) implications.

    Isn't insanity the act of doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results?
    They aren't TECHNICALLY different, they are COMPLETELY different. Cmon man, stop trying to make it seem like we're more alike than not. Even the most ardent Bills hater can see that we're a completely different team.

    Go Bills!!!
    Marcel, Kyle Williams, and Mario Williams in for the sack. Its a ham sandwich!!!!

    "The only things you will regret in life are the risks not taken"

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    Quote Originally Posted by steptide View Post
    I think our remaining schedule is a bit harder this yr than our remainingschedule in 04. That was a really good team we had in 04 that blew the first 4 games to start 0-4. Fact of the matter is, the 04 team should've bbeen 2-2 rather than 0-4 to start. This wouldn't even be a discussion had the bills wpn 1 of those first 4 games in 2004
    Should have been and were are 2 different things. Sure, that 0-4 team should have been 2-2, just as one play vs. TEN and NE means we SHOULD be 6-4 this season. I'm optimistic, I've seen improvement lately. It's completely possible but we must beat Indy. No ifs ands or buts. The playoffs start for Buffalo this sunday. Do or die.

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    His statement is correct, the past has nothing to do with the game this week. All that matters each week is that they go out and win. It's not impossible for this team to win out the rest of the season and get into the playoffs... It may be unlikely to happen but it's not altogether impossible. I'll admit being discouraged and downright disgusted this year at times (NY,SF,NE games.) I'll admit this teams past decade plus of history has been pretty abysmal as well. I do have some hope still because I've also seen improvement as the season has progressed. I've watched this team lose a few close games. Teams have gone on hot streaks in the past. Maybe the Bills can do it this year. Who knows? I'll continue to be optimistic and hope against hope that they win every game they play. That's what being a fan is... What's the point of watching if you don't want the thrill of victory?

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    The past does not have anything to do with the future.....but.....I am pleased to see that the Bills organization (although few of them were there at the time) are indeed AWARE of what happened.

    My hope is that the Coaching staff is reminding the players in the locker room. The Bills may lose on Sunday, but at least it should be for different reasons than overlooking the importance of this game. That, right there, is a start!

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    Um this team is 4-6, 2 games out of the playoffs with multiple teams between us and those in the final playoff spots. The 04 team was 9-6 with the chance make the playoffs with 1 win. Comparing the 2 scenarios is even more ridiculous than talking about the outcome as if it holds any relevance to this years team.

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    i agree with the caller, it was one of the worst non SB losses ever, and still hurts...you can't just tell us to forget about it, and we all know if we are in that situation again, that evil aura of that Pittsburgh game will be looming no matter what players on on the field, but because of the sticker they wear on their helmet

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