Hypothetical question.....crazy stuff

[Billzgobowlin]

The crazy thing is how does this rule exist in the first place. A 15 yard penalty and loss of a review? Really? How about picking up the red flag and costing the team a timeout? It seems to me sometimes the league cares more about the rule then getting the end result right. That's why that tuck rule was such a joke in the Raiders Patriots playoff game.

[The Wendigo]

I've been jumping up and down screaming about this since it happened. I posted on PFT, nobody cared. I posted it here, nobody cared. Finally, people now realize how dangerous that rule is.

[lilfaith24]

anyone that can see this happen is already drunk. You cant benefit from illegally throwing the flag....so it would probably be a 15 yard penelty and the play wold still be reviewed for the benefit of the colts. This is soooo stupid, cant believe I even read it

[Buddo]

The crazy thing is how does this rule exist in the first place. A 15 yard penalty and loss of a review? Really? How about picking up the red flag and costing the team a timeout? It seems to me sometimes the league cares more about the rule then getting the end result right. That's why that tuck rule was such a joke in the Raiders Patriots playoff game.

There's something on PFT about how it came about. Basically in a 'Skins game, London Fletcher took a flag to allow the Skins more time to review the tape, before making a challenge.
In looking to fix that situation, they've managed to create this new scenario, which is probably worse.

[tommaco81]

chan isnt that smart

[pocari-sweat]

Im thinking theres wayyyyyyyyyyyy too much credit given to Chan if you ever think he could figure out loopholes in the game.
Actually, these loopholes are always brought on by accident.........and then you sit back and watch as Goodell and the league scrambles to correct it.

[wyo]

I was completely baffled by that ruling and still am. Thank you for posting this, Beast. Your scenario is likely the very reason this will be immediately changed. I had the same reaction as Billzgobowlin wondering why this was not reviewable...

Baffled but not surprised. The only thing that surprised me about the entire incident was that it didn't happen to the Bills instead of the Lions.

[Thurman#1]

We all saw the debacle of a call in yesterday's Texans v. lions game. I have a wild scenario to throw out there....one that I have no idea what would happen "if it happened".

OK, the Bills are playing the Colts this Sunday and have the ball at the Colts 5 yard line with 4 minutes to go and down by 7.......

Fitz hands the ball to CJ Spiller ( I know, already unrealistic, right?) and Spiller fumbles the ball an instant before the ball crosses the goalline, but the refs on the field rule it was a touchdown.

Now, where it gets interesting........Chan gets a call from upstairs saying the call will be reversed and it will be a touchback......so Chan throws his red flag actually challenging the ruling of a TD on the field.

Bizarre.....certainly.....but what if Chan throws the flag and tells the ref out of his good conscious, he has to challenge the play and believes CJ fumbled before getting into the endzone. He says he can't rightfully accept a touchdown he knows his team doesn't deserve. ( of course, with a smirk on his face)

So, what would then happen? It is my opinion that they, at that point, wouldn't be able to actually review the scoring play and the Bills would actually be awarded the touchdown because they threw a challenge flag on a scoring play, correct?

Maybe this is far fetched, but it is something I would consider if I was a HC in this league. Use the rules to your advantage. I heard on the radio today this rule may be changed as early as next week.......but it will remain in place on Sunday.

Hmmm. Really interesting thought.

But Gailey would get a 15 yard penalty for throwing the flag. Would it call the play back? Or would it be walked off on the kickoff?

[lleveille]

Nice hypothetical, but it would go not in our favor for some reason, like the league just changed the rule 30 seconds prior to our challenge, much like bringing the regular refs back just before we play the pats.

Yep ... because you can't tell replacement refs who to let win. So many games decided by bad refing.

[larrymiller]

it can't be reviewed to benefit your own team so they could still review it if it benefits the other team

This is incorrect. You cannot throw the red flag on a non-reviewable play and this is one of those plays. All scoring plays are reviewed, by throwing the flag the Bills would accept the 15 yard penalty and the play becomes non-reviewable. Would be extremely smart if a coach did that.

[xbxoxy]

I've been jumping up and down screaming about this since it happened. I posted on PFT, nobody cared. I posted it here, nobody cared. Finally, people now realize how dangerous that rule is.

well by now you should realize that nobody cares... about you

[Grundy208]

This is incorrect. You cannot throw the red flag on a non-reviewable play and this is one of those plays. All scoring plays are reviewed, by throwing the flag the Bills would accept the 15 yard penalty and the play becomes non-reviewable. Would be extremely smart if a coach did that.

Rule 15-9 says that if the call went against your team, it wouldn't be reviewable. I read that as if the Bills score and Chan throws the flag, it will be a penalty on Chanbut tthen play would still be reviewed.

Look up 15-9 NFL rule and post it please. I can't copy and paste from my phone. It's a download. (I probably can copy and paste, just don't know how)

[Sabinus]

it just amazes me that no one said a word about this when it happened to the colts and to atlanta. Not one word was mentioned. now because it happened on thanksgiving its the worst thing in the world.

[Grundy208]

I dont remember the Colts. But see my Twitter last Sunday. I was blasting Smith for doing this. I just didn't think it was worthy of a thread. Apparently I was wrong there.

[whotom]

I was completely baffled by that ruling and still am. Thank you for posting this, Beast. Your scenario is likely the very reason this will be immediately changed. I had the same reaction as Billzgobowlin wondering why this was not reviewable...

Baffled but not surprised. The only thing that surprised me about the entire incident was that it didn't happen to the Bills instead of the Lions.

It could have been the Bills, Lions, or Browns - either way it's the Lake Erie Curse.

[The Wendigo]

Alright, I figured it out. Grundy was right. By parsing the specific language of the rules, the scenario can't happen.

Here's the key info:

1) A coaches' challenge can only be initiated before the next snap of the ball.

2) A team cannot commit a penalty to delay the next snap and buy more time to decide whether or not to challenge. If they do, they lose the ability to challenge the play.

3) Throwing the challenge flag at ANY inappropriate time, i.e. when a team is out of timeouts/challenges, inside 2 minutes in either half, after a scoring play or a turnover, or at any point of overtime, is considered a (15 yard) delay of game penalty.

4) In all of those special situations, reviews are initiated by the Replay Official in the booth.

Now, here's the kicker:

5) The Replay Official CANNOT initiate a review of a ruling AGAINST a team that committed a penalty that delays the next snap.

So bottom line, if the ruling on the field was in your favor, you take the penalty for the delay, but the Replay Official can initiate his review as normal. If anybody doubts me, feel free to read it yourself.

Penalty: For initiating a challenge when all of a team’s time outs have been exhausted, when all of its
available challenges have been used, after the two minute warning of either half, during an
overtime period, after a scoring play, or after a foul that prevents the next snap: Loss of 15 yards.
Replay Official’s Request for Review. After the two-minute warning of each half, throughout any overtime
period, and after all scoring plays, any Referee Review will be initiated by a Replay Official. There is no limit
to the number of Referee Reviews that may be initiated by the Replay Official. He must initiate a review
before the next legal snap or kick and cannot initiate a review of any ruling against a team that commits a
foul to prevent the next snap. His ability to initiate a review will be unrelated to the number of time outs
that either team has remaining, and no time out will be charged for any review initiated by the Replay
Official.

[The Wendigo]

well by now you should realize that nobody cares... about you

Who the **** are you?

[The Wendigo]

it just amazes me that no one said a word about this when it happened to the colts and to atlanta. Not one word was mentioned. now because it happened on thanksgiving its the worst thing in the world.

It's "the worst thing in the world" because it blatantly altered the outcome of the game. Any true fan of the game should hate to see that happen.

[Grundy208]

Alright, I figured it out. Grundy was right. By parsing the specific language of the rules, the scenario can't happen.

Here's the key info:

1) A coaches' challenge can only be initiated before the next snap of the ball.

2) A team cannot commit a penalty to delay the next snap and buy more time to decide whether or not to challenge. If they do, they lose the ability to challenge the play.

3) Throwing the challenge flag at ANY inappropriate time, i.e. when a team is out of timeouts/challenges, inside 2 minutes in either half, after a scoring play or a turnover, or at any point of overtime, is considered a (15 yard) delay of game penalty.

4) In all of those special situations, reviews are initiated by the Replay Official in the booth.

Now, here's the kicker:

5) The Replay Official CANNOT initiate a review of a ruling AGAINST a team that committed a penalty that delays the next snap.

So bottom line, if the ruling on the field was in your favor, you take the penalty for the delay, but the Replay Official can initiate his review as normal. If anybody doubts me, feel free to read it yourself.

Thanks for posting that. Thanks for the credit too.

[FrostbitMic]

Manipulation of that lame rule would get the Bills tossed from the league. They would be forced to play football amongst the Edmonton Eskimos...

No, they'd just make us give up a home game once a year ..... Oh wait