Did Dareus play?

[Ibhappy]

Its pretty clear you are that guy. I really cannot believe the player, out of every player on this bad football team, you choose to single out our DT. LOL you have got the be kidding me. Wake up, how about our non existent linebacking core, or our incompetent coach, or how about our QB that cant make any of the necessary throws.

YOu are clearly here for attention. Watch the games and realize what the real problems with this football team are. I hope you make some stupid comment about my post count, i normally dont post, but after reading your god awful posts. I decided to say something.

There are obviously a lot of problems with this football team, but Dareus deserves to be singled out because he has tremendous talent but is fat, out of shape, and lazy.

[Psi13]

There are obviously a lot of problems with this football team, but Dareus deserves to be singled out because he has tremendous talent but is fat, out of shape, and lazy.

Wow lazy. Lazy does not get you into the NFL. You maybe the sorriest excuse for a person on this entire message board.

You sure you're on the right message board? The tinfoil hat jet fan board is on another site.

[Ibhappy]

"Dareus WILL NOT RECEIVE HIGH MARK from us in terms of MOTOR, CONSISTENCY OR EVEN PRODUCTION. As a part-time starter in 2009 he generated 33 tackles and six sacks. Starting 11 games in 2010 he put up almost mirror numbers. Dareus was often double-teamed, but he had more snaps and more opportunities to make plays in his junior season. Dareus is also KNOWN FOR HIS LACK OF EFFORT at times. He looks to become UNINTERESTED AND LAZY during "slow" points in the game. We will note that Dareus' play down the stretch during 2010 was much better than earlier in his career. His play against Michigan State was down right dominating. More than any defensive player in this 2011 NFL Draft class, Dareus has the ability to take over games. Whether he does or not is up to him."

http://optimumscouting.com/rankings/...ll-dareus.html

[Psi13]

Please link real NFL scout opinions please.

[cbr69er79]

Sophomore slump... I hope. He should work out with kyle in the offseason but 'bama and lsu dont get along so well.

[Hobbes]

I dunno about Dareus but there was a few Merriman sightings

What????? Where????

[S-K-E-L-A-T-O-R]

Its pretty clear you are that guy. I really cannot believe the player, out of every player on this bad football team, you choose to single out our DT. LOL you have got the be kidding me. Wake up, how about our non existent linebacking core, or our incompetent coach, or how about our QB that cant make any of the necessary throws.

YOu are clearly here for attention. Watch the games and realize what the real problems with this football team are. I hope you make some stupid comment about my post count, i normally dont post, but after reading your god awful posts. I decided to say something.

Why wouldn't you single out the DT? Great DT's are crucial in dominating defenses. Oh right, I forgot about the BBMB mentality that only franchise QB's are important. The other 21 guys can stand around and play half-assed football, but as long as we have a franchise QB we will definitely win a Super Bowl.

The OP makes some great observations about Dareus. It's hard to analyze a DT. But just watch Kyle Williams a few plays, then watch Dareus, then watch Wilfork, then watch Ngata. You'll see that Dareus is dogging it without a doubt.

Dareus needs coaches to bring out the great player he can be. If not he will be a bust. I'm glad his playing time is getting cut. He has done nothing so far to earn a big contract when this rookie contract is up.

[jcmccall]

I beg people to look up another high pick Ndamukong Suh.

Other than his first season his numbers are pretty constant with Dareus. It's just how DT play. Numbers are not flashy.

And like its been said Dareus has been nursing some injuries this year and I have not heard him whine once.

I beg that people watch the game and see how many plays Dareus didn't make that were to his side of the defense. The Jags ran right at him and he couldn't make a tackle.

[RustySabre]

I heard an interview with him not so long ago where he stated he was playing with a bad shoulder, strained hamstring and he mentioned something else but i don't remember what it was. I thought it might be a ankle problem but I'm not sure.

[BillsLunaticEZE]

Dareus had a bad 4 game stretch, since then has been playing good. Dareus is least of my concerns. However, I do think him losing 15 pounds would be a good thing.

[Ibhappy]

He needs to lose at least 2x that.

[GreggTX]

He played, but Carrington took a lot of his snaps. Maybe Carrington is just playing better right now or DW is trying to send Marcell a message. I think it's both.

I don't know if we'll make the playoffs or not, but at least it's a lot more satisfying watching this defense play.

[Dr Strangelove]

I didnt see any stats listed for Dareus but our 100 million dollar DE got 1 tackle and 1 sack. I wonder if that 100 million dollars would have been better spent building a new stadium to secure the future of this franchise.

[KcoxBillsfan]

Yes, he played. I'll wait until snap counts come out to address the argument of how significantly his snaps were reduced in Carrington's favor, but I already made 3 comments on this that have not been addressed:

1 - Dareus is the 39th most used defensive lineman this season. Looking at http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts, there are only about 10 4/3 DTs, 3/4 NTs, and 3/4 DE that are used more than he is. A reduction in his snaps could be seen as either him being "demoted" because of Carrington's good game (play the hot hand), or it could be seen as a concerted effort by Wannstedt to reduce the burden on his 330 lb+ 2nd most used d-lineman. It could also have been due to injury or game-planning. Are Fred's increased snaps indicative of CJs poor play or Gailey's gameplan?

2 - Even dominant DTs fail to register stats in games. Dareus is tied for 8th in sacks among DTs. 4 of the 7 above him have at least one game with no stats.

3 - In the 1 Defensive highlight in on NFL.com, Dareus took on a double team to free up Mario for the strip sack. This suggests: 1) Defensive Tackles can impact a game without getting stats (see Vince Wilfork throwing an O-lineman into Sanchez to force a fumble he was not credited with last week). This is like defensive play in Hockey, if a skater makes a good defensive play to free the puck without touching it or pressures the other team heavily fore-checking, they can indirectly cause a goal without receiving an assist (Hockey has plus/minus, football doesn't have this time of indirect measurement, which could be compared to defensive players getting credit if they are on the field for sacks/3rd down stops/touch downs against, etc). 2) The Jaguars think highly enough about Dareus, in a game in which you claim he was "pulled" for him to draw 2 blockers.

Update (no one has addressed any of these 3 statements and snap counts have been posted):

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Dareus played 72% of defensive snaps (52), Carrington played of defensive snaps 28% (20)**.

Out of roughly 800 defensive snaps* Dareus has played 594 or 74% and Carrington has played 262 or 33%.

But wait.... I thought Dareus was "pulled?" Clearly, not the case.

There seem to be two kinds of people in this thread, rational thinkers that can recognize Dareus' flaws, abilities, and place in a larger organization/defensive scheme, and irrational thinkers who want only to glorify or denounce him based on gut feel, ad hominem attacks, and immeasurable observations about a guys motor, culture, or personality. Feel free to sort yourselves out.


* NFL.com has total number of defensive snaps at 784, while Football Outsiders has Gilmore leading defensive player snaps at 798 (my guess is football outsiders might count penalized snaps, perhaps only when the play continued)
**This does not count Carrington's role on special teams, which is unrelated to Dareus' play.

[S-K-E-L-A-T-O-R]

Update (no one has addressed any of these 3 statements and snap counts have been posted):

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/snapcounts

Dareus played 72% of defensive snaps (52), Carrington played of defensive snaps 28% (20)**.

Out of roughly 800 defensive snaps* Dareus has played 594 or 74% and Carrington has played 262 or 33%.

But wait.... I thought Dareus was "pulled?" Clearly, not the case.

There seem to be two kinds of people in this thread, rational thinkers that can recognize Dareus' flaws, abilities, and place in a larger organization/defensive scheme, and irrational thinkers who want only to glorify or denounce him based on gut feel, ad hominem attacks, and immeasurable observations about a guys motor, culture, or personality. Feel free to sort yourselves out.


* NFL.com has total number of defensive snaps at 784, while Football Outsiders has Gilmore leading defensive player snaps at 798 (my guess is football outsiders might count penalized snaps, perhaps only when the play continued)
**This does not count Carrington's role on special teams, which is unrelated to Dareus' play.

Thanks for the stats. Nice website you found there.

You make a great point that Dareus was out there on a lot of the plays, but despite this was barely even noticeable. That's great evidence that he needs to be benched because other guys are picking up the slack for him.

Thanks for your contribution.

[Capt.Midnite]

Thanks for the stats. Nice website you found there.

You make a great point that Dareus was out there on a lot of the plays, but despite this was barely even noticeable. That's great evidence that he needs to be benched because other guys are picking up the slack for him.

Thanks for your contribution.

I hope that you aren't a lawyer if that's so-called "Great Evidence" in your opinion's favor.

[teef]

I hope that you aren't a lawyer if that's so-called "Great Evidence" in your opinion's favor.

he tries, but skelator isn't very good at posting.

[KcoxBillsfan]

Thanks for the stats. Nice website you found there.

You make a great point that Dareus was out there on a lot of the plays, but despite this was barely even noticeable. That's great evidence that he needs to be benched because other guys are picking up the slack for him.

Thanks for your contribution.

I see you've selectively ignored most of my points and misrepresented the direction of my argument. Let me explain the evidence again.

#1 above - perhaps one of the reasons Carrington played well is because he only plays a limited # of snaps. Maybe Dareus was getting double teamed (like on the Mario strip sack) more than Carrington? There is no evidence to suggest if his role was switched with Dareus his impact would increase. It took the best performance of his career and Dareus' least noticeable for anyone to consider criticizing Dareus because carrington is "picking up the slack for him." Regression to the means suggests Carrington will not maintain his influence and Dareus had an off game. I'm not disparaging Carrington, he had a great game and I hope he'll continue to grow. Having great backups is the luxury of a winning team, a luxury the bills haven't had in a while. Could it be possible that, despite the stats, the Bills posted their best rushing defense #s all year because they both played well? If the Bills coaching staff (certainly not above criticism) shared your view, wouldn't they have "pulled" Dareus in the game like others have suggested. If the Jaguars defense shared your view, why would they double team him?

#2 on the subject of off games. When Wilfork registers 1 tackle in weeks 1, 6, and 8 this year, should he be benched? How about last year, when he had 0 tackles and 0 sacks against the Eagles? Should he have been benched then? I mean, jeez, Kyle Love had a sack in that game, how hard can it be? He must not have a good motor, he's probably lazy... What's that you say? He had 10 tackles and a sack in the next game? This goose egg game occurred in the middle of his best statistical? year (in terms of sacks, passes batted, and interceptions - 2) How could this be, he had a game where he didn't record any stats at all??!?!

#3 on the subject of stats and defensive tackles. Stats are a great and objective way to compare plays and events that are recorded. Much of what defensive tackles do is not recorded, so they need to be considered both with and without stats (unless someone can develop metrics for % of double teams won, impact on opponents gameplan, correctly executed blitzes, run plays in which this player changed the direction of the runner, etc.). This is not to say that Dareus should always just be perceived as good even if he doesn't play well. In this particular game his failure to record any stats is good evidence that he had less of an impact than usual. But it is bad evidence to suggest that he did not impact the game at all (see the Mario play where Mario was singled because Dareus was doubled) and it is even worse evidence to take one game of a player at a position that doesn't record a lot of stats to suggest that that player is getting outplayed by his backups/lazy/a bad player in general. Think big picture. Think positive and negative; Stats, but also what they can and can't measure; One game among many games; One player at one position playing a team game.