View Poll Results: Would A Democratic System Work Better?

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  • Yes, GREAT IDEA!

    8 24.24%
  • No, the owner and GM should have all the power!

    25 75.76%
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Thread: I'VE GOT THE ANSWER: DEMOCRACY!!! (It's the American way!)

  1. #21
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    Buffalo Bills

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    No. A lot of people cannot run their own lives truth be told. Besides, we have enough government (elected through democracy) telling business how to perform with government having no clue itself. One of the prices we pay for having a society that allows us freedom to choose is sometimes an individual will not make good choices or they will make choices that are not palatable for those who may wish to patronize their business. Thankfully we live in a society where the individual is not forced to do business with any one entity. OP, are you down for the same "democracy" to show up at the door of your business or the business you may work at? I remember a job in retail that I had right after college that people would alternately complain the sales staff either spent too much time with a customer (if it was not the complainer) or too little (if it was the complainer). No. No. No to meddling.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wendigo View Post
    Terrible idea. Yes, the Bills organization has made a lot of bad decisions over the years, but involving even more poor decision-makers with even less information is definitely not the solution. Certain individuals among the fanbase would certainly have made better decisions than OBD, but when you open it up to a democratic process, you all but guarantee that the best thinkers will be outnumbered and the results will not reflect their ideas.
    Sadly so, but the alternative is what we have now.
    "I am a river to my people"

    VMA 331 2nd Marine Air Wing Cherry Point NC Retired.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hartfordbillsfan View Post
    Sadly so, but the alternative is what we have now.
    This proposal is not a true alternative anyway. I stayed away from saying this will never happen because the OP is aware of it, but...this will NEVER, EVER, EVER EVER EVER happen.

    The only real alternative is for the next owner of the Bills to be a true fan and lover of the game who is wealthy enough to be relatively unconcerned with ROI and willing to invest heavily in putting a winner on the field. If that happens, we'll see a clean sweep of the executives and upper management as well as the football department, THEN we'll see what a real NFL operation looks like in Buffalo.
    THE BLUEPRINT


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    *Note: Same as your 2001-2012 Buffalo Bills

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by StHustle View Post
    We should have a democratic system enacted in which we, the people, vote for some of our coaching and front office positions. The main two I'd want would be GM and Head Coach. The HC should be able to pick his coordinators but we should however be able to vote if they are allowed to fill that position themselves or not. This is the way it would work:

    Everybody from the GM on down would be fired at season's end (Nix would still have an opportunity to be elected under the new system). After the second weekend in January, candidates would start being interviewed by Ralph for the GM position. Ralph would have two weeks to narrow down the candidacy list the three people for a vote that would be held a week later. During the week between the final 3 candidates being named and the vote, the finalists would each give a speech to the fans about their vision and plan for the franchise moving forward. They would lay out what positions they see as priorities to upgrade in the draft and free agency, what qualifications they would require in a HC, and what they see their role as being with the club.

    The vote is then held on the Saturday of Superbowl weekend. That night, a winner is named and introduced as the new GM to the Buffalo faithful. As soon as the Superbowl is over, they can go out and start looking for HC candidates and after two weeks would need to narrow it down to three candidates. The process repeats itself and we, the people, vote in the HC. As part of the vote, we'd be asked whether or not that particular coach would also be allowed to act as either offensive or defensive coordinator.

    * If we don't like any of the three candidates (GM or HC), we could pick a fourth option saying "New Candidates" and if that option receives the most votes then a new slate of candidates would have to be selected.

    * Each year, after the last game, a quick vote would be taken on whether to retain the people in those positions or not. If we make it to at least the Championship game, the two would automatically be retained.

    *******************ONLY THAT YEARS SEASON TICKET HOLDERS WOULD GET TO VOTE!!!*******************

    And there you have it! Problem solved. As fans we can no longer complain about who was appointed to lead our team. The HC and GM would be held accountable by the fans who provide the money they get in their checks every week and would have to pay attention to our demands. "Joe Fan" would have a voice that mattered!

    What do you think?

    (Please don't respond with "this will never happen" as I understand that but just want to see what you all think of the idea)
    As a buisness owner would you turn total control over to your patrons? Why should the fans get that power after the owner invests all the money? Do you get to vote on decisions a movie studio makes because you buy a ticket to see their movies?
    Packers have shareholders that can only vote for Board members who hire and fire. They PAID for shares but have no control over who is hired as the GM/Coach.
    What coach would apply for a one year contract. It takes a while to build a team.
    Each coach brings in his own assistants and puts in his own schemes. If you didn't lke the coach after a year there is no time for the new guy to get ready for the draft.
    Nix and Gailey had about two and a half months to get ready for their frst draft.
    What do you think players would think of the constant change?
    Not a very good idea.
    At Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope. Now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe. If I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in your problem.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustySabre View Post
    As a buisness owner would you turn total control over to your patrons? Why should the fans get that power after the owner invests all the money? Do you get to vote on decisions a movie studio makes because you buy a ticket to see their movies?
    Packers have shareholders that can only vote for Board members who hire and fire. They PAID for shares but have no control over who is hired as the GM/Coach.
    What coach would apply for a one year contract. It takes a whole to build a team.
    Each coach brings in his own assistants and puts in his own schemes. If you didn't lke the coach after a year there is no time for the new guy to get ready for the draft.
    Nix and Gailey had about two and a half months to get ready for their frst draft.
    What do you think players would think of the constant change?
    Not a very good idea.
    Wow. I think you and I had previously not agreed, but this is good. Nice post!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Jazz View Post
    What is your problem, do you get off on cutting a guy down a notch, is this what gets you through your days ? really, whats up with you ?
    Rest in Peace Dad, June 3, 1940 - January 18, 2013 Semper Fi Marine
    "Be polite, be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet" - General James Mattis USMC

  6. #26
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    The concept is doomed from the beginning, as the assumption is that you will get FO guys/Coaches, who will actually want to come here under those circumstances. Not going to happen.For all the lofty ideals, going that way, would likely shrink the available choices further than they are already.
    Now, if you want a more 'democratic' model, you have to go the Green Bay route, with fans being shareholders etc.
    People should understand that the name on the front of the uniform is more important than the one on the back.

    Why bother drafting worse players than you already have on your roster?


    The Ignore List is your friend.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buddo View Post
    The concept is doomed from the beginning, as the assumption is that you will get FO guys/Coaches, who will actually want to come here under those circumstances. Not going to happen.For all the lofty ideals, going that way, would likely shrink the available choices further than they are already.
    Now, if you want a more 'democratic' model, you have to go the Green Bay route, with fans being shareholders etc.
    Packers shareholders only vote for Board of Directors members. The Board hires the GM and coach, not the fans.
    At Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope. Now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe. If I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in your problem.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by cpalm View Post
    No......we're a REPUBLIC not a democracy.
    our government is structured as a republic which is, in our case, a representative democarcy. In any case, sure, I'm all for "voting" for GM as soon as we fans actually own the team. Until then the owner -as would I if I owned the team -call the shots.

  9. #29
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    "when you start to listen to the fans, you'll soon be sitting with them"

    "If ever a man had it all, it would have to be me"


    "living is easy with eyes closed"

    Bills mock (subject to change many times by May)

    1) trade with Rams again 9 for 13 + 44 Kony Ealy DE
    2) Antonio Richardson OT Tenn.
    2)Troy Niklas TE ND
    3)Jeremiah Attaochu OLB GT
    4) Kenny Ladler DB Vandy
    5)Andrew Jackson MLB W. Kent.
    7)Russell Bodine C,G N. Caro

  10. #30
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    Some good arguments have been made. I have added amendments that should take care of some of those issues...
    The Bills are THE ONLY TEAM IN NFL HISTORY to bench their healthy starting quarterback to open the playoffs! WE HAVEN'T MADE THE PLAYOFFS SINCE!

    FLUTIE: Please forgive Ralphie and lift the curse!!!!!

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by StHustle View Post
    Some good arguments have been made. I have added amendments that should take care of some of those issues...
    So what power does the owner have? You know the guy that has the most to lose in the deal?
    Owners would vote it down. They own the business not the fans.
    NFLPA would vote it down. FA contracts and the draft would be a mess.
    Buying a ticket only gets you into the game. You have no other rights than that. It's entertainment. That's what the E stands for in ESPN. It's your choice to spend or not spend. Your finacial loss is based on your choice to keep spending on a product you're not happy with.
    At Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope. Now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe. If I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in your problem.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustySabre View Post
    So what power does the owner have? You know the guy that has the most to lose in the deal?
    Owners would vote it down. They own the business not the fans.
    NFLPA would vote it down. FA contracts and the draft would be a mess.
    Buying a ticket only gets you into the game. You have no other rights than that. It's entertainment. That's what the E stands for in ESPN. It's your choice to spend or not spend. Your finacial loss is based on your choice to keep spending on a product you're not happy with.
    The owner gets to handpick everybody but the GM and the coaches. He picks the 3 candidates he likes most for the GM position and the fans vote on them. The GM picks the 3 candidates he likes most and the fans vote on them. The new HC picks his entire coaching staff.

    How would the draft and FA contracts be a mess? The way I had the system set up is no different than how most teams handle firings and hirings. The only difference is the season ticket holders get a choice and a vote on the final verdict. I believe if 66% of your ST holders want a coach fired, he should be fired! The fans aren't that stupid where they're gonna fire a good coach. Chan would have been kept up until after this season.

    Its funny how people get mad when Chan basically says "Joe Fan" doesn't know what he's talking about but then you all are saying the same thing. Don't get mad at Chan...APPLAUD THE MAN FOR KEEPING IT REAL.

    I for one believe any real DIE HARD fan is knowledgeable enough about the game to know when it's time for a coach to go or not. We also know what coaches are good and which ones suck. Die hard fans would actually care enough to do research before voting on a candidate. I believe that the average die hard Bills fan would take his vote more serious for HC than he would his vote for President of the US. Sad but true!
    The Bills are THE ONLY TEAM IN NFL HISTORY to bench their healthy starting quarterback to open the playoffs! WE HAVEN'T MADE THE PLAYOFFS SINCE!

    FLUTIE: Please forgive Ralphie and lift the curse!!!!!

  13. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by DIESEL-USMC View Post
    I don't trust people to make sound decisions...... see America 2012
    You and I agree on something. Nice.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by StHustle View Post
    The owner gets to handpick everybody but the GM and the coaches. He picks the 3 candidates he likes most for the GM position and the fans vote on them. The GM picks the 3 candidates he likes most and the fans vote on them. The new HC picks his entire coaching staff.

    How would the draft and FA contracts be a mess? The way I had the system set up is no different than how most teams handle firings and hirings. The only difference is the season ticket holders get a choice and a vote on the final verdict. I believe if 66% of your ST holders want a coach fired, he should be fired! The fans aren't that stupid where they're gonna fire a good coach. Chan would have been kept up until after this season.

    Its funny how people get mad when Chan basically says "Joe Fan" doesn't know what he's talking about but then you all are saying the same thing. Don't get mad at Chan...APPLAUD THE MAN FOR KEEPING IT REAL.

    I for one believe any real DIE HARD fan is knowledgeable enough about the game to know when it's time for a coach to go or not. We also know what coaches are good and which ones suck. Die hard fans would actually care enough to do research before voting on a candidate. I believe that the average die hard Bills fan would take his vote more serious for HC than he would his vote for President of the US. Sad but true!
    You want to sign a long term contract for a guy who might not be there next year? Isn't that the excuse being thrown around for no big name coach wantng to sign with the Bills? The unstable ownership? How much more unstable could you make a team? If you know that much more then the guys doing it now then apply for the GM position and get paid for it or buy the team. Joe Fan doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. What you call knowing more I call inflated ego.
    At Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope. Now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe. If I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in your problem.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustySabre View Post
    You want to sign a long term contract for a guy who might not be there next year? Isn't that the excuse being thrown around for no big name coach wantng to sign with the Bills? The unstable ownership? How much more unstable could you make a team? If you know that much more then the guys doing it now then apply for the GM position and get paid for it or buy the team. Joe Fan doesn't know as much as he thinks he does. What you call knowing more I call inflated ego.
    66% of season ticket holders are not going to vote a coach out after his first year unless he does a record setting bad job. Any coach can get fired after one year...fans in control or not. When polls are posted on this board that get at least 100 responses...the most sensible answer always wins out. You should give Joe Fan more credit than you are. There are many kids (and I mean literally children)on this board that say stupid things and people take them and run with it like Bills fans are overall idiots. The most educated fans don't even post on this board cause they'd rather not debate with idiots or children who only know what the so called experts on TV tell them.
    The Bills are THE ONLY TEAM IN NFL HISTORY to bench their healthy starting quarterback to open the playoffs! WE HAVEN'T MADE THE PLAYOFFS SINCE!

    FLUTIE: Please forgive Ralphie and lift the curse!!!!!

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by StHustle View Post
    66% of season ticket holders are not going to vote a coach out after his first year unless he does a record setting bad job. Any coach can get fired after one year...fans in control or not. When polls are posted on this board that get at least 100 responses...the most sensible answer always wins out. You should give Joe Fan more credit than you are. There are many kids (and I mean literally children)on this board that say stupid things and people take them and run with it like Bills fans are overall idiots. The most educated fans don't even post on this board cause they'd rather not debate with idiots or children who only know what the so called experts on TV tell them.
    You still have no stake in the team to vote on anything. You bought a ticket, that's it. You're not a partner or a shareholder. I have never heard of Joe Fan becoming a GM or Coach as far as I know. Does the NFL have any on record? Why is that? You're a fan of a losing team and you can't do anything to change that. Take it or leave it.
    At Cornell University they have an incredible piece of scientific equipment known as the Tunneling Electron Microscope. Now, this microscope is so powerful that by firing electrons you can actually see images of the atom, the infinitesimally minute building blocks of our universe. If I were using that microscope right now, I still wouldn't be able to locate my interest in your problem.

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by RustySabre View Post
    You still have no stake in the team to vote on anything. You bought a ticket, that's it. You're not a partner or a shareholder. I have never heard of Joe Fan becoming a GM or Coach as far as I know. Does the NFL have any on record? Why is that? You're a fan of a losing team and you can't do anything to change that. Take it or leave it.
    For being a Rusty Sabre....you're pretty sharp
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Jazz View Post
    What is your problem, do you get off on cutting a guy down a notch, is this what gets you through your days ? really, whats up with you ?
    Rest in Peace Dad, June 3, 1940 - January 18, 2013 Semper Fi Marine
    "Be polite, be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet" - General James Mattis USMC

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by DIESEL-USMC View Post
    Very good response. Because obviously I was talking about politics and not the lack of common sense society has today to the tune of buying I-phones instead of their children's school clothes or taking personal responsibility for making stupid decisions.....like your decision to come to the BBMB and make a screen name like that, obviously looking for attention because of your mediocre life in reality. Welcome to the internet.....be all you can be.


    PS- since your new, and obviously didn't read the COC, we dont talk politics.
    Ouch, that was downright cruel to Rex.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by DarylLamonica View Post
    Ouch, that was downright cruel to Rex.
    It's ok, he's got 6,875 friends on Facebook. His self esteem suffered no setbacks.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Jazz View Post
    What is your problem, do you get off on cutting a guy down a notch, is this what gets you through your days ? really, whats up with you ?
    Rest in Peace Dad, June 3, 1940 - January 18, 2013 Semper Fi Marine
    "Be polite, be professional. But have a plan to kill everyone you meet" - General James Mattis USMC

  20. #40
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    With all due respect to the OP< this is one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard, not sure if you were joking or not.

    They are so many flaws in this I do not even no where to begin. Some thing like businesses, the military, teams, do NOT lend themselves to the democratic process.

    Can you imagine the BBMB posters selecting players and a coach. LOL, every year we would have a new coach, GM and QB, we would draft the Notre Dame QB every other year

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