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Thread: The failed Losman experiment

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by whorlnut View Post
    I think the fact that the Bills traded away picks and moved back into the first in 2006 to take Losman has most of this fanbase feeling snakebit. Most of us fans think that move cost us Aaron Rodgers in 2007 and set us back to where we are today. While reaching for Losman might have been the wrong move, Buffalo was going to take a qb that year one way or another. Losman was considered the fourth best quarterback that year. The team panicked when they couldn't make the move to 10 to get Roethlisberger. They tried to trade with Houston to get in front of Pittsburgh, but they wouldn't budge. At least Buffalo was trying to be aggressive in those days.

    Now since the Losman experiment failed, most of the fans are gun shy about any quarterback. We shouldn't be that way. Look at how many franchises have whiffed on quarterbacks in the recent past, yet have kept trying until they found their guy. Heck, many have drafted quarterbacks even though they had their guy in the first place. Green Bay has taken quarterbacks even though Rodgers was on the roster, and as recently as last year, Washington drafted Cousins even though they took RG3 in the SAME draft.

    I guess what I'm getting at, is that we need to stop trying to find faults with every quarterback and see the bright side in these guys. I'm all aboard with Barkley if they end up with him. He's started every game since his freshman year in high school and he's a winner. He's played in a pro system at USC. If the only reason that most of you can complain about is that he's an inch too short, or he plays in warm weather, that's pathetic. Rodgers played at Cal and now he's in Green Bay. Palmer played at USC and was one of the best in the league until his knee injury against the Steelers in the playoffs.

    I also like Mike Glennon, who plays in a pro system at NC State. EJ Manuel may be a good option, as would Landry Jones. We may even have a shot at Geno Smith if the dominoes fall right. Any one of these guys would automatically make this team better and give us all hope. We have a young team that's ready to win now. Our offensive line is still young and if they can stay healthy, can be one of the best in the league. Yes, we need a receiver opposite Stevie, and I believe they will get one this offseason. Other than that, we don't have many other needs on offense.

    Quarterback seems to be one of the final links to this team being REALLY competitive and I think we should all look forward to getting one that will finally put us over the top and make us a playoff team.
    I remember these days fondly. Bills actually tried to be competitive. I also had high expectations.
    At least back then, they tried to do something interesting. Drafts nowadays are like getting a root canal
    I wouldn't be surprised if Bills took another RB in the first

  2. #42
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    losman could have been a decent qb but failed experiments with scrub head coaches doomed his career from the start. not who i want but i think the best option for this team (must have a new head coach at least ) would be landry jones .

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    Quote Originally Posted by grundy208 View Post
    Oh, so this is Bama QB thing. (Tebow, Tebow, Tebow)

    Now, I'm gonna need some examples of 1st round QBs, both winners and "stat guys" that you're referring to.
    I think you just want to talk. This is the pros. But, do I think Tebow was mishandled? Yes. Most guys NOT with a National Championship out of college would be FOOLISH if they agreed that winning a college National Championship in college meant something in the NFL and THEY don't have a college championship. Neither the Jets coach NOR Sanchez have a National Championship ring. Tebow has one and McElroy has one. I don't even know why they play for national championships anymore, since winning one ALMOST guarantees that you will be a FAILURE in the pros.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sampten View Post
    Losman wasn't ready for the NFL when we drafted him. He came in with a chip on his shoulder and got layed out in training camp. In his second season, he was handed the keys to the car, and he wasn't ready to drive.

    The Bills brought Losman along the wrong way. Losman was a guy who needed to sit behind a QB for a few years, probably 3, to really learn the NFL. He needed the reps in garbage time and in preseason. Instead, we fed him to the wolves.

    I'm not saying Losman could have been good, but we ruined any chance he had of becoming good by playing him when he wasn't ready.
    Losman had the skill set, but like you said, the Bills ruined any chance of him becoming good in Buffalo. The Biggest mistake of the Donahue tenure was rushing Losman out there after Bledsoe had guided the Bills to within one game of the playoffs. Had he kept Bledsoe for another year, he may have made the playoffs the next year and then could've decided to go with Losman...if he had earn the right to play.

    I doubt Losman would've been good, but the Bills wasted any chance of getting the best out of him when they promoted him to the starter. Jauron was never known for getting anything good out of offensive players...so when Jauron was hired, Losman career ended.
    FIRE BUDDY NIX!!!

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    Lots said about the QB situation of prior regimes. With Losman and Bledsoe, TD seems to have had a reverse philosophy at least as far as building an offense around his quarterback was concerned.

    It also goes without saying that the Bills have been scouting qb's closely since Nix and Whaley arrived. Nix has built a team up from the trenches that can better support a young qb more so than what the situation was when he arrived. Any qb for that matter. The o line is one of the really good things they put resourses into. Unlike the Losman, Bledsoe and Edwards days. All due respect to Marvs over priced free agents.

    If the plan was to get a good young draft prospect in year three or four, unless something to good to be true like Newton fell, they must have followed this drafts crop pretty closely. This coming draft might be the one that the blueprint calls for getting someone like Nix says will be here 10 - 12 years and Fitzpatrick, at least in Nix's mind may have just been stop gap measure all along.

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    Whats with this love for Losman?...I vividly remember all those 10 yard passes into the dirt. He had serious accuracy problems that had nothing to do with him starting too early.

    The guys was just baaaaad.

    Trade for Rivers this year and draft a young QB next year to sit behind him.

    Plow the rest of the draft into defense cause #@%@$#%$!% we need it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaWCH View Post
    I think you just want to talk. This is the pros. But, do I think Tebow was mishandled? Yes. Most guys NOT with a National Championship out of college would be FOOLISH if they agreed that winning a college National Championship in college meant something in the NFL and THEY don't have a college championship. Neither the Jets coach NOR Sanchez have a National Championship ring. Tebow has one and McElroy has one. I don't even know why they play for national championships anymore, since winning one ALMOST guarantees that you will be a FAILURE in the pros.
    I definitely could use some more friends.

    Football is a team game. Sometimes, a great player plays with less talent. Could be he was developed by a great coach at a lesser school and became great, or that he just wasn't recruited due to location of where he is from or what have you.

    Also, there are guys that have all the talent in the world that just don't amount for whatever reason.

    And don't forget, sometimes the best players don't want to go to the big ten or teams like Alabama. They want to go somewhere where a coach will let them spread it out and throw the ball. (They go there thinking they can win)

    Just from the top of my head, here is a list of recent 1st rounders and which of your categories I believe they would fall in:

    Cam Newton - Both...but will say winner die to JC championship

    Andrew Luck - Stats

    RG3 - Stats

    Ben Roethlisberger - Stats

    Christian Ponder - Stats

    Jake Locker - Stats

    Blaine Gabbart - Stats

    Eli Manning - Stats

    Phillip Rivers - Stats

    Tannehill - Stats

    Rodgers - Stats

    Tebow - Both, but we'll say Wins

    Sanchez - Stats

    Stafford -Stats

    Any who, this is what makes being a scout so hard. Winning in college doesn't necessarily translate into winning in NFL, and great college stats don't necessarily translate to winning in NFL.
    "I put my thing down, flip it and reverse it."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sampten View Post
    Losman wasn't ready for the NFL when we drafted him. He came in with a chip on his shoulder and got layed out in training camp. In his second season, he was handed the keys to the car, and he wasn't ready to drive.

    The Bills brought Losman along the wrong way. Losman was a guy who needed to sit behind a QB for a few years, probably 3, to really learn the NFL. He needed the reps in garbage time and in preseason. Instead, we fed him to the wolves.

    I'm not saying Losman could have been good, but we ruined any chance he had of becoming good by playing him when he wasn't ready.
    Yet this is what most fans want us to do with this year's QB, should we draft one.
    -G

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    There seems to be a lot of people who want to wait until the right guy comes along to be our QB to not take one just to take one. Very rarely however does any team "just take one". The Falcons when they picked Matt Ryan were probably in a "take whoever we like best" because they needed a face of the franchise in that case it happened to work when the 49rs did the same when they picked Alex Smith it didn't work out as well. At some point however you have to take a risk in other words there has to be at least one guy who you like, and a team needs to grab him reach or not. Very rarely does a draft class produce no long team starters, it has only happened 3 times in 20 years (07, 02, 96). Trent was a Value in the third so was Brady quinn in the 20's where as Russell Wilson was a reach, so were Newton, Dalton and Kap. So the idea of reach or value only holds water before actual football is played. On top of that you never Know who is going to be that breakout guy so you have to make an educated Guess. Our front office seemed to think that we would be a better team with Aaron Williams than Dalton or Kap and that we would be a better team with TJ Graham than Wilson, they were probably wrong, perhaps they should be willing to risk a Colt McCoy to get an Andy Dalton. Look at the Lions they drafted 80 WR but weren't to scared to grab megatron and they whiffed on QB's but still took the plunge for Stafford. Playing it safe makes you the Post Montana Chiefs.

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    The only reason Losman "failed" was because of the injuries. He broke his leg in his first training camp; he was popped in the knee by Wilfork and Trent Edwards had a 'nice drive' against NE. I think Losman would have been a good starting QB. We def. would have been to the payoffs by now.

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    IMO the best way to make sure you get who you want is to get him first. Miami would have loved to wait to take RT but were forced to take him when they did because someone else would have taken him. If your going to draft a QB you have to be bold otherwise you end up with a Brown in the 7th and a Fitz as a starter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DarylLamonica View Post
    Sampten is correct on every point and it is even worse than that.

    How many OCs did Losman have to suffer through? It was a joke, the guy was totally unprepared. Too bad Bledsoe was such a dick to him and Losman too arrogant, it was actually the ideal situation for both, let Bledsoe end his career showing the youngster how to do it.
    I think that had a lot to do with JP. You'd have a hard time convincing me Vincent wasn't trying to send him a message with that TC hit. I got the feeling a LOT of guys on the team were rubbed the wrong way by JP.

    Also, at the time, I chafed at the idea that Drew left basically just because he was asked to be in a QB competition. Seeing later just how unready JP was....I kind of can't blame him. Now Drew sure thought a lot of Drew, no doubt. But as a vet with his accomplishments, I don't blame him for bouncing. You want me to compete with.....that? The deck was stacked against him (org wanted JP to play) and Drew knew it.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by grundy208 View Post
    I definitely could use some more friends.

    Football is a team game. Sometimes, a great player plays with less talent. Could be he was developed by a great coach at a lesser school and became great, or that he just wasn't recruited due to location of where he is from or what have you.

    Also, there are guys that have all the talent in the world that just don't amount for whatever reason.

    And don't forget, sometimes the best players don't want to go to the big ten or teams like Alabama. They want to go somewhere where a coach will let them spread it out and throw the ball. (They go there thinking they can win)

    Just from the top of my head, here is a list of recent 1st rounders and which of your categories I believe they would fall in:

    Cam Newton - Both...but will say winner die to JC championship

    Andrew Luck - Stats

    RG3 - Stats

    Ben Roethlisberger - Stats

    Christian Ponder - Stats

    Jake Locker - Stats

    Blaine Gabbart - Stats

    Eli Manning - Stats

    Phillip Rivers - Stats

    Tannehill - Stats

    Rodgers - Stats

    Tebow - Both, but we'll say Wins

    Sanchez - Stats

    Stafford -Stats

    Any who, this is what makes being a scout so hard. Winning in college doesn't necessarily translate into winning in NFL, and great college stats don't necessarily translate to winning in NFL.
    Yeah, that is right, your list and what I think. ALL OF THOSE GUYS got into the NFL without having to WIN ANYTHING at the highest level in college. AGAIN. The NFL is NOT about WINNING! If the NFL was about winning, then a COACH wouldn't be the least PAID person on the payroll. The NFL is about entertainment, so coaching is NOT that important to the NFL, unlike in college where if your big time program doesn't win football games, then the WHOLE athletic program suffers.

    About being GREAT and playing at a lesser school with a great coach, then why NOT apply those principles across the board in ALL employment situations, so some PHD folks could be replaced with High School diplomas, since the caliber of the educational challenge of the level of education doesn't matter as per the NFL MODEL of picking and choosing players, especially at quaterback. Plus, it is like Kool-Aide. If you add enough WATER to the Kool-Aide, all of the color in the Kool-Aide will disappear. The NFL is watered down Kool-Aide, in terms of the GREAT players in college being PROMOTED to play at a higher level or SO CALLED higher level. Bring some of those great college coaches at the highest levels in college who win National Championships and PAY THEM big money like the players are paid and we will see the REAL players back on the field in the NFL, rather than this 7 on 7 type football, where it is becoming almost ILLEGAL to tackle somebody hard. And the league where the great college quarterbacks go to bury their ability to play the position.

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaWCH View Post
    Yeah, that is right, your list and what I think. ALL OF THOSE GUYS got into the NFL without having to WIN ANYTHING at the highest level in college. AGAIN. The NFL is NOT about WINNING! If the NFL was about winning, then a COACH wouldn't be the least PAID person on the payroll. The NFL is about entertainment, so coaching is NOT that important to the NFL, unlike in college where if your big time program doesn't win football games, then the WHOLE athletic program suffers.

    About being GREAT and playing at a lesser school with a great coach, then why NOT apply those principles across the board in ALL employment situations, so some PHD folks could be replaced with High School diplomas, since the caliber of the educational challenge of the level of education doesn't matter as per the NFL MODEL of picking and choosing players, especially at quaterback. Plus, it is like Kool-Aide. If you add enough WATER to the Kool-Aide, all of the color in the Kool-Aide will disappear. The NFL is watered down Kool-Aide, in terms of the GREAT players in college being PROMOTED to play at a higher level or SO CALLED higher level. Bring some of those great college coaches at the highest levels in college who win National Championships and PAY THEM big money like the players are paid and we will see the REAL players back on the field in the NFL, rather than this 7 on 7 type football, where it is becoming almost ILLEGAL to tackle somebody hard. And the league where the great college quarterbacks go to bury their ability to play the position.
    I count 5 Super Bowls up there. Debunked!
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    Losman got screwed by being stuck with inept coaching. We will never truly know how good he could have been.
    When will the Bills find the heir to Losman?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaWCH View Post
    Yeah, that is right, your list and what I think. ALL OF THOSE GUYS got into the NFL without having to WIN ANYTHING at the highest level in college. AGAIN. The NFL is NOT about WINNING! If the NFL was about winning, then a COACH wouldn't be the least PAID person on the payroll. The NFL is about entertainment, so coaching is NOT that important to the NFL, unlike in college where if your big time program doesn't win football games, then the WHOLE athletic program suffers.

    About being GREAT and playing at a lesser school with a great coach, then why NOT apply those principles across the board in ALL employment situations, so some PHD folks could be replaced with High School diplomas, since the caliber of the educational challenge of the level of education doesn't matter as per the NFL MODEL of picking and choosing players, especially at quaterback. Plus, it is like Kool-Aide. If you add enough WATER to the Kool-Aide, all of the color in the Kool-Aide will disappear. The NFL is watered down Kool-Aide, in terms of the GREAT players in college being PROMOTED to play at a higher level or SO CALLED higher level. Bring some of those great college coaches at the highest levels in college who win National Championships and PAY THEM big money like the players are paid and we will see the REAL players back on the field in the NFL, rather than this 7 on 7 type football, where it is becoming almost ILLEGAL to tackle somebody hard. And the league where the great college quarterbacks go to bury their ability to play the position.




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    If the off season and training camp determined the Super Bowl winners for that year.....the Dolphins would have 7 rings.


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    Quote Originally Posted by skudz View Post
    Losman got screwed by being stuck with inept coaching. We will never truly know how good he could have been.
    Thats been the general consensus. We will never know.
    2014 Adopt A Bill - EJ Manuel


    If the off season and training camp determined the Super Bowl winners for that year.....the Dolphins would have 7 rings.


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    Quote Originally Posted by AlabamaWCH View Post
    The Bills SHOULD NEVER draft a quarterback in Buffalo “EVER”, when Vince Young, a PROVEN winner was asked to be a BACKUP.
    Vince Young has the IQ of a box of rocks and thats being insulting to the box of rocks.
    And do you realize that your caps lock key keeps getting stuck on ?
    Keep the faith and don't forget to flush .

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    Quote Originally Posted by paintgirl View Post
    Vince Young has the IQ of a box of rocks and thats being insulting to the box of rocks.
    And do you realize that your caps lock key keeps getting stuck on ?

    I have tried to tell him that, I think he thinks that he's getting a point across.....he's been on Vince Young all day.....

    about the rocks......VY is still smart enough to be a pretty darn good towel salesman http://FunnyOrDie.com/m/6pw1
    2014 Adopt A Bill - EJ Manuel


    If the off season and training camp determined the Super Bowl winners for that year.....the Dolphins would have 7 rings.


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    Quote Originally Posted by StHustle View Post
    If anything the "Losman Experiment" shows that you shouldn't take a QB just cause you need one. We are looking for a FRANCHISE QUARTERBACK! Therefore we should only select one if one of that caliber is available. If we don't feel one will be available with our pick, we should attempt to trade up. If we can't accomplish that or if we feel like there isn't one available, WE WAIT. Plain and simple. Fill other holes with quality players instead of wasting a pick that will set us back like the "Losman Experiment" did.
    So draft 2 QBs in the draft. Trade up if necessary to get the best option and go ahead and get another one in the top 5 of the draft. This will increase the chances of landing a starting franchise QB. The Bills will not GO ANYWHERE without a QB to lead this team on the field. Lead on the sideline and lead in the skybox are 2 more areas that ALSO need to be addressed in order to change the course of this rust bucket.
    “Win or lose, they’re going to know we fought. We may not win every fight, but they’re going to know they were in a fight, and that’s the kind of team we’re going to put on the field.” -- Doug Whaley, Buffalo Bills GM

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