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Thread: Frankly Speaking ~ Discombobulated Bills and Mysterious Ills

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaw66 View Post
    Oh, and another thing. Coaches don's and shouldn't design their defenses around their best players. It makes complete sense to what the Bills did - design the defense to runnel runs up the middle.

    ...............

    So I don't mind that the defense is designed to funnel runners to the middle. Shepard should love that; Wilson should love that. They should know that all each has to do is go to his gap and wait for a guy who needs tackling.
    Rich told me he expected them to have big statistical years, just because of the scheme. Did they? Nope.

    So, I think it would be good to have a great player in there. But, what the Bills did not do is have an adequate player in there. If that was from talent or training or both, it's still the coaches and staffs fault. Whoever was there had to be able to do the job and they could not.

    So who might they have had? Paul Posluszny is good enough. Where is he? Jacksonville. Why is he in Jacksonville? He did not know we would run a 4-3. Discombobulated.
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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadLandsMeanie View Post
    Two points of discussion. On the Bills I do not think the coach has that power. I think for example that Ralph had a hand in pushing Trent Edwards. And we know that Ralph made the call to start Rob Johnson over Flutie. These were amateur moves that had bad consequences. We also have the tale that Jeff Littman cut Troy Vincent. We have the tale of Mularkey quitting the team partly in response to having Losman pushed on him as the starter. Who quits as head coach of NFL team?

    So that type of stuff along with weird secrecy about who decides what, makes me think the next coach may just be another victim.

    Plus you are a rationalist but I have superstitions. I think there's a mystical part of the problem too, in the same sense that its mysterious how the Beatles were so good. I don't think a coach alone can fix that.
    This is the stuff that REALLY worries me. The stuff that rankles my guts about being a Bills fan: that mysterious feeling that there are layers of ulterior motives at work within the Bills organization and that coaches and GMs are nothing more than window dressing. It's often said around here that nothing changes until ownership does, but I've always sort of bisected that statement knowing that it's true in the grand scheme, but also holding out hope that the right guy in the right position high enough up but still below owner might actually produce some positive results.

    Taken together, there's a litany of evidence that the statement may literally be true, in which case there's no point in firing anybody or even trying to get better until Ralph leaves us. That is a really awful thought, so I'll just keep blasting Chan and hoping against all hope that something meaningful changes.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpstateRules View Post
    Funnel the RB's righ to Bryan Scott who is the Nickle ILB. Obviously Wannstadt and Gailey have zero confidence in Sheppard and Bradham if they have to drop into coverage, or they can't work with them in developing.

    My problem with the coaching is they continue to do the same things over again, make no adjustments and expect different results. That is the definition of insanity!! Also, I see no fire in the sideline coaching and this team becomes flat.
    agree completely. same offensive plays & no correction on th defensive side of the ball.

  4. #24
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    Wow BLM thanks for this post! Every so often I wonder why I keep coming back to this board, everybody seems reactionary, without thought. Very few look past their anger and frustration to the big picture. It is threads like this that are the payoff for me. Well thought out, well written, good responses, from good posters. Again thank you for this post!

    The marionette is a perfect picture of how football works, and Buffalo's is messed up. I have liked Chan, and like Wyo it has saddened me to watch what has happened to him. I have been a Bills fan from the beginning and as we all know, it isn't easy. I don't know what the answers are, I wish I did, but even so I'm not able to effect change (except through prayer). The talent on the Bills has come a long way in three years, but the product is your CI. It is mysterious too, we should be better, we are close to being better. But when we put it all together on the field the spastic puppet appears. I'm not sure a new coach will make a big difference. I'm no sure we could get a "well-known coach" to come here. Something has to give and it could well be Ralph - bless him for putting a team in Buffalo and keeping it here. I know more talent will come, Nix has proven himself and Whaley is in the wings. I hope somehow we can calm down and find the cure for the collective spasms and tics that run though this team.
    Something tells me we're on to something good!

    Biils fan since 1960 - forever Buffalo Bills

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    Quote Originally Posted by notagoodname View Post
    wouldn't it have been easier to just say the bill need new ownership, and now more than ever its obvious its always been a problem.
    Well put!

  6. #26
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    Very nice article. Some of the moves Buffalo made the last couple years are baffling. Cutting 'good enough' players and replacing them with others who are no better at the position. Every other team has ex-Bills who start and play well. Every year we have the same holes to fill. Including QB, including coach.
    The other thing is that the number of dumb penalties and players caught out of position or missing blocks never improves. That is a pure coaching failure. The really good coaches make the players accountable and well aware of where they should be and who they are covering.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by BadLandsMeanie View Post
    Greetings Bills Fans. I am BadLandsMeanie and this is Frankly Speaking,



    Frankly Speaking, straight talk about the Buffalo Bills, the team that put the “We” in Weenie.

    In camp this summer past I was standing with Rich watching the defense practice. Rich is a friend of mine from the board here and he is extremely knowledgeable about football, and is also a very good teacher too.

    Rich was explaining to me that Wannstedt's defense is designed to funnel running plays to the middle linebacker. I turned and asked him “Wait a minute, who do we have at middle linebacker?”

    Who do we have? How did our run defense work out this year? Does it make sense to predicate your run defense on untested and unremarkable players, at the key position?

    Now maybe isn't the most popular time to mention it, but there is a lot to like about the Bills. And they do a lot of things right.

    But now I want to say that it is finally clear to me what is wrong with the Buffalo Bills when it comes to winning, and staying a winner. I have seen this before in some few companies I have worked for. I know what it is. I know what it looks like. I can't say why exactly or who but I know the problem now.

    And it isn't new. The Bills have nearly always been discombobulated. Looking back they have always, always, had that tendency.

    This is due to two factors. One is straightforward rational, and the other is mysterious and a bit mystical maybe.

    We base our entire defensive scheme on players who are iffy.(This year). We bring in Bledsoe, release his tight end Mark Campbell (who he was hitting with pass after pass), and try to turn him into a three step and fire short game QB. We have a 4-3 defense, change to a 3-4, spend a couple years building people for the 3-4, then once we have them, change to a 4-3. This Spiller stuff isn't new either. We had OJ Simpson sitting the bench for three years because the coach didn't believe in running. That might even be ok if a coach was a pass happy coach, but the question here is, what was Juice DOING here if they did not wish to run? Discombobulated. Spiller doesn't fit the scheme, ok. Why is he here then?? Discombobulated. There are countless examples.

    A football team is like a Marionette. Different limbs with strings being pulled to create a coordinated whole. The Buffalo Bills organization has nearly never been able to operate the puppet. They can not act in a planned, coordinated, orchestrated way.

    That means a person, or persons, in the organization either are unable to work in a coordinated planned way, or that the power is divided among people who have different agendas and incentives and who work for their own aims rather than the aim of the team as whole, with respect to winning.

    I now haven't got a single doubt in my mind that it is true.

    I can't say who is creating the uncoordinated actions, because as Bob Matthews (very good local reporter) said recently on his radio program, “On 31 NFL teams you know exactly who is making the decisions. On one, nobody knows”

    So that's the organizational piece. You could go in, find out who had what powers, who made what decisions, and fix that in a week. Change the structure so it was about working on one plan, period.
    The second piece is the mystical / mysterious piece that might be much harder to get rid of.

    First, consider the Beatles. The Beatles were so successful as a group I need say no more than mention their name and everyone knows who I mean. They are also perhaps the best known example of a “Collective Genius”. When they worked together, something not understood and mysterious, happened. The result was production far beyond what their abilities added up to. And they could not approach it in solo careers or working with other musicians afterward.

    That's Collective Genius. It happens from time to time.

    What also happens that isn't discussed as often, if at all, is Collective Imbecile.

    The Buffalo Bills are a Collective Imbecile. I have seen that happen where I worked also. We had skilled, talented, dedicated people but the group results were horrible.

    That happens to the Bills over and over again. Chan Gaily is not a stupid man. But over his time here he has gone from seeming like a very smart coach to seeming as if he doesn't have any idea what he is doing at all. Dave Wannstedt may not be the best defensive coach in the world, but there was no reason at all to suppose he would preside over what may be the worst Bills defense in the history of the team.

    That has happened to countless people over the years here.

    A new coach won't change it. Something else has to happen. But how do you fix something like that?

    For me the bright side now, is I enjoy watching Spiller run. There have been many dark years without someone like him on the team. I have been watching the Bills since the 70's. I don't think we have ever had a back who could juke like he can. It's unbelievable. Remember when he faked the guy so bad, the guy broke his leg??

    So on the positive side I suggest we enjoy watching that when we can because its really something special.

    And that's Frankly Speaking for December 21 , 2012




    Heres some food for thought...........the Bills D is playing the exact scheme of the Bears this year. So why is the Bears D so much more effective than the Bills D, when theyre playing the exact same D schemes.
    Its not talent.
    Its not Wanny..........although we would all like to believe this.
    Its the players playing out of position and players not following through on assignments.
    Of course the way its working for the Bears D is so effective when everyone is playing where they should be and the fact that for the D to be dominant is alot of burden on the LBs(which we are sorely lacking).........the LBs crowd the LOS and force the play into the middle. We obviously are laking talent in the LB position to achieve this, which im hoping will be adressed this year in the draft.

    But make no mistake..........we may be on the road to recovery if the LBs are adressed this year.
    Just my 2 cents.
    Can you dig it?

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    I haven't posted in a while but this thread has me thinking a little more... There is clearly a disfunction in this organization and its gonna have to be with the constants of the organization... We know Ralph isn't the best decision maker any longer and some would question his decision making to begin with... This then points to littmen and is overdorf still here? These would be your main puppeteers of this team.... The question I have is how did polian get away with building the team he did... He was the only guy I could remember that kept Ralph's minions at bay.... Of course until the power struggle that ended up with bill on the outside looking in.... Was bill simply that good? Why would Ralph trust littmen to such an extent? And I am of the thinking nothing will change until littmen is out of the picture or you find a gm that can put the minions in their place...

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Wendigo View Post
    This is the stuff that REALLY worries me. The stuff that rankles my guts about being a Bills fan: that mysterious feeling that there are layers of ulterior motives at work within the Bills organization and that coaches and GMs are nothing more than window dressing. It's often said around here that nothing changes until ownership does, but I've always sort of bisected that statement knowing that it's true in the grand scheme, but also holding out hope that the right guy in the right position high enough up but still below owner might actually produce some positive results.

    Taken together, there's a litany of evidence that the statement may literally be true, in which case there's no point in firing anybody or even trying to get better until Ralph leaves us. That is a really awful thought, so I'll just keep blasting Chan and hoping against all hope that something meaningful changes.
    Ownership, the passion at the top to win, identity? Whats lacking and why does everyone from the gm to the coach to the players end up so defeated after a few years of every second level regime change in years past.

    The Atlanta Falcons are an organization I've always been somewhat envious of. I have a lot of respect for the owner, Auther Blank, a self made man who's roots I believe allow him to carry himself with a degree of dignified humility. He purchased the Falcons three years after Jones, a different breed of cat, bought the Cowboys. The Cowboys had early success due to talent and coach Johnson,(imho), but role two decades into the future, all the advantages Jones has been gifted with have brought him nothing but futility since. No one can deny these men have a passion for their clubs success and are involved directly to realize that success is achieved.

    Blank has put control of football operations into the hands of those who do it best. Meaning not himself, or other aspects of the organization that would trump the GM, or whoever had the job of building a winning team, which of course markets itself and makes everyone involved in the organization successful. Jones has success with his investment at the bank, but not much on the field lately. Blank does and has been building with the right people. Jones is the begining and the end with everyone in the middle it seems.

    Two examples of different owners moving forward with different approaches, but with the same motive, too win a championship.

    It's easy to look at them and see this is the goal. With the Bills I get the idea, and your post hits this nail well, that the motives at the top, above the GM's control, are different than those who are trying to put a team together that can compete in the division. I don't know how much freedom or power of choice Nix has in comparison to a GM such as Dimitroff. I'm sure he was given some guarantees before he took this job coming out of retirement, it is also speculation to think he would have been as successful in Atlanta as Dimitroff has been given the hiearchy there, or if Dimitroff would be frustrated or less effective on the surface as Buddy appears to be with Littman, Brandon and Wilson pulling the puppet strings above him. Or maybe even taking the puppet away at times to pull a few strings of their own.

    Both Jones and Blank are of a new generation owners. Both with different styles, but both with a goal. Ralph is old gaurd and his days of being as active as those two are well past him. His passion as ebbed, (it appears) and the decision making is in the hands of men at desks who don't share the same passion, or even possess that same quality that Ralph may have had in his prime, despite his record over the years. By themselves, even with the right motive, an owner can't do much, but if they have the right people and listen to them, success usually follows. The Bills are a testiment to that from the glory years.

    I think Littman and Brandon minus Ralph full time are like baby sitters with someone elses kid, waiting for the parent to come home. They like the child well enough, keep it from harm, follow instructions, but they are removed from the childs future at the point were their responsibilities end. When a new owner comes home to roost, he could be a Jones or a Blank or something in between, but I wager we will see more passion to win in the upper ranks, I think that's whats lacking at OBD. Mabe this team will once again have an identity as well.

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pocari-sweat View Post
    Heres some food for thought...........the Bills D is playing the exact scheme of the Bears this year. So why is the Bears D so much more effective than the Bills D, when theyre playing the exact same D schemes.
    Its not talent.
    Its not Wanny..........although we would all like to believe this.
    Its the players playing out of position and players not following through on assignments.
    Of course the way its working for the Bears D is so effective when everyone is playing where they should be and the fact that for the D to be dominant is alot of burden on the LBs(which we are sorely lacking).........the LBs crowd the LOS and force the play into the middle. We obviously are laking talent in the LB position to achieve this, which im hoping will be adressed this year in the draft.

    But make no mistake..........we may be on the road to recovery if the LBs are adressed this year.
    Just my 2 cents.
    It's not talent? All three of their LB's are better than ours, (before Urlacher went out) CB's Tim Jennings and Peanut Tillman are both pro-bowlers, and Julius Peppers actually DOES get double teamed, so offenses scheme for him, their ""off" Defensive end, Cory Wooten, is playing well enough to put Israel Idonije on the bench (6 sacks) same as Kelsay, Moore and Anderson combined, and their DT's are at least on par with ours. (Melton and Paea 8.5 sacks so far, same as our tandem) They are 5th in total defense, we are 24th. In my mind there is no comparison. I do however agree with you on the linebackers being the heart of the defense. We get two new impact starters, we change the entire picture.
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  11. #31
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    I just wanted to chime in that I am reading and enjoying the wonderful additions in the thread here (before the howling begins when the game comes on )
    Sometimes you make a mistake and you get hit in the head. - Eli Manning

    I am a Ball Burglar.

    Its the browns.. But hey, still pretty cool! ~ Megan Pettine

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by EscapedfromNY View Post
    It's not talent? All three of their LB's are better than ours, (before Urlacher went out) CB's Tim Jennings and Peanut Tillman are both pro-bowlers, and Julius Peppers actually DOES get double teamed, so offenses scheme for him, their ""off" Defensive end, Cory Wooten, is playing well enough to put Israel Idonije on the bench (6 sacks) same as Kelsay, Moore and Anderson combined, and their DT's are at least on par with ours. (Melton and Paea 8.5 sacks so far, same as our tandem) They are 5th in total defense, we are 24th. In my mind there is no comparison. I do however agree with you on the linebackers being the heart of the defense. We get two new impact starters, we change the entire picture.



    Granted that our LBs are horrendous for sure, they are still somewhat adequate and serviceable.
    However, we dont have the worst LBs in the league and yet other teams seem to be doing alright on D assignments.........which i would consider that they at least have a half decent idea of their position, their assignments and a good grasp on what their D co-ordinator is trying to achieve.
    Can you dig it?

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