Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 33

Thread: the truth as why no top notch coach

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    5,460

    Default the truth as why no top notch coach

    Buffalo Bills

    FREE iPad Download

    I wrote this in someone else's thread but thought it needed its own.

    what people don't understand is the money factor! lets say they hire Cowher at 6 million a year because that's what it will take, now Cowher wants to hire his d-cord at 3 million a year and his o-cord at 2.5 mill a yr and then you got his other coach's still, your looking at around 16-22 million on coach's. not gonna happen in buffalo, this has been the problem from day 1, you get what you pay for. the bills staff as a whole would be around 12th in payroll in the sec. con. in collage football, whats that tell you? the only way we get a good coach is if we hire a guy that has never been one and becomes one. Like Sean Peyton when he was hired. we are gonna have to get lucky. the sad thing is Nix has no control over what Ralph will pay for coaching,the same happened to TD when he was here and Marv,here's the keys BUT by the way your not aloud to spend more than 12 million on a coaching staff.
    Welcome to the NFL, where the only measure of success can be found in the standings

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    S.E. Idaho
    Posts
    7,845

    Default

    Ugh, if we have to "get lucky" we are ****ed!
    "I put my thing down, flip it and reverse it."

    Missy Misdemeanor Elliot

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Rochester
    Posts
    3,081

    Default

    There are three reasons why no "A list" coach will come here.

    1. Ownership stability. With a new owner comes a new owner wanting to bring in his own management and coach.

    2. Management structure and where this new coach would fit in with decisions regarding players.

    3. Buffalo's perception as a dysfunctional organization.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    LaLaLand
    Posts
    11,071

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS22 View Post
    I wrote this in someone else's thread but thought it needed its own.

    what people don't understand is the money factor! lets say they hire Cowher at 6 million a year because that's what it will take, now Cowher wants to hire his d-cord at 3 million a year and his o-cord at 2.5 mill a yr and then you got his other coach's still, your looking at around 16-22 million on coach's. not gonna happen in buffalo, this has been the problem from day 1, you get what you pay for. the bills staff as a whole would be around 12th in payroll in the sec. con. in collage football, whats that tell you? the only way we get a good coach is if we hire a guy that has never been one and becomes one. Like Sean Peyton when he was hired. we are gonna have to get lucky. the sad thing is Nix has no control over what Ralph will pay for coaching,the same happened to TD when he was here and Marv,here's the keys BUT by the way your not aloud to spend more than 12 million on a coaching staff.
    .....not that I think we have a shot at a high profile coach, but if you want one you better be ready to pay a Cowher / Gruden type at least what Belichick is making (9M).....if we can spend 100M on Mario, then we can spend some cake getting someone substantially better than Jauron or Gailey.....and there's no way I pay the coordinators that much either.....most of the money has to go to the HC (assuming he's marquee)......
    "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and conveniences,
    but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy ".......Martin Luther King

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    5,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by LABILLBACKER View Post
    .....not that I think we have a shot at a high profile coach, but if you want one you better be ready to pay a Cowher / Gruden type at least what Belichick is making (9M).....if we can spend 100M on Mario, then we can spend some cake getting someone substantially better than Jauron or Gailey.....and there's no way I pay the coordinators that much either.....most of the money has to go to the HC (assuming he's marquee)......
    its not the same, mario's money comes from tv money where Raplh's comes from his profit's. big differ......
    Welcome to the NFL, where the only measure of success can be found in the standings

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Arcade, NY
    Posts
    26,379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS22 View Post
    I wrote this in someone else's thread but thought it needed its own.

    what people don't understand is the money factor! lets say they hire Cowher at 6 million a year because that's what it will take, now Cowher wants to hire his d-cord at 3 million a year and his o-cord at 2.5 mill a yr and then you got his other coach's still, your looking at around 16-22 million on coach's. not gonna happen in buffalo, this has been the problem from day 1, you get what you pay for. the bills staff as a whole would be around 12th in payroll in the sec. con. in collage football, whats that tell you? the only way we get a good coach is if we hire a guy that has never been one and becomes one. Like Sean Peyton when he was hired. we are gonna have to get lucky. the sad thing is Nix has no control over what Ralph will pay for coaching,the same happened to TD when he was here and Marv,here's the keys BUT by the way your not aloud to spend more than 12 million on a coaching staff.
    This is the "truth" according to whom?

    There were reports that coaches like Cowher and Shanahan were offered substantial contracts to come here prior to Chan's hiring.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    5,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Koko78 View Post
    This is the "truth" according to whom?

    There were reports that coaches like Cowher and Shanahan were offered substantial contracts to come here prior to Chan's hiring.
    they were yes, but what about there coaching staff? cowher is gonna want his guy's PERIOD. ralph isn't gonna pay over 10 million total on a coaching staff...
    Welcome to the NFL, where the only measure of success can be found in the standings

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Arcade, NY
    Posts
    26,379

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS22 View Post
    they were yes, but what about there coaching staff? cowher is gonna want his guy's PERIOD. ralph isn't gonna pay over 10 million total on a coaching staff...
    So your "truth" is just your opinion based on conjecture?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tulsa Ok
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS22 View Post
    I wrote this in someone else's thread but thought it needed its own.

    what people don't understand is the money factor! lets say they hire Cowher at 6 million a year because that's what it will take, now Cowher wants to hire his d-cord at 3 million a year and his o-cord at 2.5 mill a yr and then you got his other coach's still, your looking at around 16-22 million on coach's. not gonna happen in buffalo, this has been the problem from day 1, you get what you pay for. the bills staff as a whole would be around 12th in payroll in the sec. con. in collage football, whats that tell you? the only way we get a good coach is if we hire a guy that has never been one and becomes one. Like Sean Peyton when he was hired. we are gonna have to get lucky. the sad thing is Nix has no control over what Ralph will pay for coaching,the same happened to TD when he was here and Marv,here's the keys BUT by the way your not aloud to spend more than 12 million on a coaching staff.


    The TRUTH why no top coach...Ralph Wilson and no QB. There it is, no way around it.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Posts
    5,460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Koko78 View Post
    So your "truth" is just your opinion based on conjecture?
    NO it is based on over 60 years of hiring second tier coach's, 1 time has the bills ever hired a top notch head coach, that was chuck knox back in early 80's. as soon as Buffalo starting winning knox left for seattle, guess for what reason.. MONEY.
    Welcome to the NFL, where the only measure of success can be found in the standings

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa aka No Fun Town
    Posts
    15,933

    Default

    If this is true then how come small market teams like Pittsburgh, GB, and Indy can find and retain good coaches? This is just another version of the small market excuse.
    I love the smell of charcoal in the morning.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tulsa Ok
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuvian View Post
    If this is true then how come small market teams like Pittsburgh, GB, and Indy can find and retain good coaches? This is just another version of the small market excuse.
    Small market has nothing to do with it. Marvin Lewis' wife didn't like Buffalo or its School system. Ok so what? He has never been a 'grade A' head coach. Pittsburgh, Indy, GB ALL Have really good to great and respected OWNERSHIP. Something Buffalo does not have.

    I will guarantee right now, we get new ownership that walks the walk with a priority of WINNING, and not bilking good people out of billions over the years while putting crap on the field and I GUARANTEE we will land a top notch GM and HC.

    Look coaches have Egos. There isn't a top guy out there that wouldn't love to be 'The ONE' that turned this franchise into a perennial superbowl contender / Superbowl winner. On the flipside of the ego, they will NOT step in here seeing what has happened to GM's and Coaches that have been here with Ralph as owner.

    Change ownership, and we have a great shot of turning this around.

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa aka No Fun Town
    Posts
    15,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TulsaBillzFan View Post
    Small market has nothing to do with it. Marvin Lewis' wife didn't like Buffalo or its School system. Ok so what? He has never been a 'grade A' head coach. Pittsburgh, Indy, GB ALL Have really good to great and respected OWNERSHIP. Something Buffalo does not have.

    I will guarantee right now, we get new ownership that walks the walk with a priority of WINNING, and not bilking good people out of billions over the years while putting crap on the field and I GUARANTEE we will land a top notch GM and HC.

    Look coaches have Egos. There isn't a top guy out there that wouldn't love to be 'The ONE' that turned this franchise into a perennial superbowl contender / Superbowl winner. On the flipside of the ego, they will NOT step in here seeing what has happened to GM's and Coaches that have been here with Ralph as owner.

    Change ownership, and we have a great shot of turning this around.
    I agree on all points but money then is not an issue
    I love the smell of charcoal in the morning.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tulsa Ok
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuvian View Post
    I agree on all points but money then is not an issue
    Yes and no good sir. We lost John Butler due to money. Ralph has never thought he should spend top dollar on Coaching. The only time we have ever heard of him spending money on coaching was when he sent Brandon to Shannahan's house and allegedly offered 10 mil per year. But the issue of it being a small market never was the case, RALPH and his philosophy of not paying Staffs top dollar did catch up to him. Small market is the excuse Ralph used.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Arizona
    Posts
    2,880

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CAS22 View Post
    I wrote this in someone else's thread but thought it needed its own.

    what people don't understand is the money factor! lets say they hire Cowher at 6 million a year because that's what it will take, now Cowher wants to hire his d-cord at 3 million a year and his o-cord at 2.5 mill a yr and then you got his other coach's still, your looking at around 16-22 million on coach's. not gonna happen in buffalo, this has been the problem from day 1, you get what you pay for. the bills staff as a whole would be around 12th in payroll in the sec. con. in collage football, whats that tell you? the only way we get a good coach is if we hire a guy that has never been one and becomes one. Like Sean Peyton when he was hired. we are gonna have to get lucky. the sad thing is Nix has no control over what Ralph will pay for coaching,the same happened to TD when he was here and Marv,here's the keys BUT by the way your not aloud to spend more than 12 million on a coaching staff.
    Help me out which one does this post satisfy?

    Truth:

    1. the true or actual state of a matter: He tried to find out the truth.

    2. conformity with fact or reality; verity: the truth of a statement.

    3. a verified or indisputable fact, proposition, principle, or the like: mathematical truths.

    4. the state or character of being true.

    5. actuality or actual existence.
    As soon as laws are necessary for men, they are no longer fit for freedom.
    - Pythagoras.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    16,689

    Default

    It is not about the money.

    Ralph has proved he will spend the money (see Mario Williams $100 MILLION dollars). A few million of dead money for a coach is a drop in the bucket. And, by the rumors it sounded like Ralph had opened his wallet to try and land Shanahan, etc. None of those prospects said money was the reason for NOT even interviewing for the job. You have to interview first, then hear the $ being offered.

    That didn't even want to hear how much was being offered. That just weren't interested in coaching in Buffalo.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tulsa Ok
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intimidatortj View Post
    It is not about the money.

    Ralph has proved he will spend the money (see Mario Williams $100 MILLION dollars). A few million of dead money for a coach is a drop in the bucket. And, by the rumors it sounded like Ralph had opened his wallet to try and land Shanahan, etc. None of those prospects said money was the reason for NOT even interviewing for the job. You have to interview first, then hear the $ being offered.

    That didn't even want to hear how much was being offered. That just weren't interested in coaching in Buffalo.
    Please learn the reality of how money works in the NFL before posting again.

    What he spent on Mario Williams (Player) is COMPLETELY different than COACHING.

    Players = paid by the TV contracts

    Coaches = Paid out of Ralphs pockets aka his profit.

    My God Chris Spielman back in 1997 or so cleared this up on Fan TV. The TV Revenue either pays for the entirety of the salary cap for each team or **** close to it. Coaches salaries, GM salaries come out of the actual revenue generated by the team, or what Ralph pads his pockets with by going cheaper. If he pays more for a HC or GM, he pockets less money.

    Oh and as for as Mario, the Bills have been sitting on cap room, pocketing extra money by NOT reaching the cap (which is why bigger owners required teams spend up to 90% or more of the cap each year) they were able to afford him easily.

    Try to understand, Ralph Wilson has never and will never make a move that will actually hit him hard economically.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa aka No Fun Town
    Posts
    15,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by intimidatortj View Post
    It is not about the money.

    Ralph has proved he will spend the money (see Mario Williams $100 MILLION dollars). A few million of dead money for a coach is a drop in the bucket. And, by the rumors it sounded like Ralph had opened his wallet to try and land Shanahan, etc. None of those prospects said money was the reason for NOT even interviewing for the job. You have to interview first, then hear the $ being offered.

    That didn't even want to hear how much was being offered. That just weren't interested in coaching in Buffalo.
    If we wave top dollars at a name coach I think we'll land one. It may not be our first choice but getting top dollar for an NFL job is still breathing rarified air. I'm thinking someone in the Kirk Ferentz category. Great coach who is not a media hound.
    I love the smell of charcoal in the morning.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Tulsa Ok
    Posts
    701

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by stuvian View Post
    If we wave top dollars at a name coach I think we'll land one. It may not be our first choice but getting top dollar for an NFL job is still breathing rarified air. I'm thinking someone in the Kirk Ferentz category. Great coach who is not a media hound.
    I still say Stu it wont' happen if Ralph is owner. He has the rep of being an over meddling owner and not great to work for. He will want a ton of say and how many HC's to also do personnel evaluation turn out winners? And who at GM if we hire another one, worth a **** will work for Ralph after how he did Tom Donahoe and John Butler?

    I say you can offer all the money you want, but we will not get the HC/ GM combo we need until Ralph no longer owns this team.

    Sometimes the money just isn't worth it no matter how much is offered.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ottawa aka No Fun Town
    Posts
    15,933

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TulsaBillzFan View Post
    I still say Stu it wont' happen if Ralph is owner. He has the rep of being an over meddling owner and not great to work for. He will want a ton of say and how many HC's to also do personnel evaluation turn out winners? And who at GM if we hire another one, worth a **** will work for Ralph after how he did Tom Donahoe and John Butler?

    I say you can offer all the money you want, but we will not get the HC/ GM combo we need until Ralph no longer owns this team.

    Sometimes the money just isn't worth it no matter how much is offered.
    Sadly history is on your side. If Russ Grimm won't even interview here to stay with the lowly Cards as a position coach I guess that says it all. Still I sense that the urgency of our failures is starting to hit home at OBD. I recall vividly how deflating it was after all the build up around Cowher and Shanahan to settle for Gailey. NFL on Sirius says that Ron Rivera is as good as gone too so that could be one more competitor for coaching talent. (sigh ....sound of drink being poured). Merry Christmas from Canada BTW.
    I love the smell of charcoal in the morning.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •