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Thread: Glennon best deep ball QB in draft.

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    Default Glennon best deep ball QB in draft.

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    The Bills need a deep ball QB and Glennon has a rocket arm, if we had him that would stop defenders crowding the box and give CJ some space to do his thing, draft a deep threat wr and Bills can become real good.

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    1) Marrone/Hacketts offense is a West-Coast system which has more emphasis on short/intermediate accuracy, timing, and movement.
    2) There is alot more to being a good quarterback than having a strong arm.
    3) We just drafted TJ Graham for that role.
    4) We have some work to do in alot of areas, having a deep-ball threat won't solve everything.

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    If this is the route your taking to analyze a quarterback you should take a look at Manuel he has a rocket as well

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    40+ yard passes, a.k.a. "the deep ball", are totally over-rated in the NFL.

    QBs throw maybe 5 of them a game (~5-10% of the total offensive plays), and complete 1 or 2.

    With that said, a QB's arm strength should still be one in the top 32 on the entire planet, or they don't belong in the NFL.

    They just don't need to throw or complete many deep (40+ yards) passes.

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    I'm not just saying we need a Qb who can only throw a deepball, it's important we can challenge defences with a long game, we need a short passing game as well, I don't want the bills being predictable like we have been with Fitz. Im bigging Glennon up because Smith and Barkley will be gone in first 7 picks and he will be best of a decent group of QBS left.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hargreaves2326 View Post
    If this is the route your taking to analyze a quarterback you should take a look at Manuel he has a rocket as well
    Agree, Manuel has the best deep ball in this draft. I'm starting to really like him at the top of round 2.

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    If all it took was a good deep ball. JP Losman would be a all star.

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    Ill try to comment on every post.

    Did you not watch the Superbowl? Throwing long is the new NFL. So you have to be able to push the ball.

    Running CJ, will be easier if the safties have to lay back.

    If we run the west coast dink and dunk, would we just keep Fitz?? wait, that didnt work. You need to throw long or the D starts playing downhill.

    Throwing long now creates PI calls which are good as a catch.

    JP I think has talent, maybe too much arm strength not enough on the hampster wheel. But if the Bills are to make any advance on offense, they must use all the tools in the tool box, which means having a person that can do that. Its not all one thing or another, but the option must be there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lewbowski9090 View Post
    Ill try to comment on every post.

    Did you not watch the Superbowl? Throwing long is the new NFL. So you have to be able to push the ball.

    Running CJ, will be easier if the safties have to lay back.

    If we run the west coast dink and dunk, would we just keep Fitz?? wait, that didnt work. You need to throw long or the D starts playing downhill.

    Throwing long now creates PI calls which are good as a catch.

    JP I think has talent, maybe too much arm strength not enough on the hampster wheel. But if the Bills are to make any advance on offense, they must use all the tools in the tool box, which means having a person that can do that. Its not all one thing or another, but the option must be there.
    Throwing long is the new NFL? First of all, the vertical passing deep-strike game has been the major implementation to the game in the past 15ish years.. and secondly, how did you come to that conclusion after watching the superbowl? Just because Flacco hit Jones on one deep ball where he was wide open as a result of horrible coverage? I'd take an accurate, smart, consistent QB any day.
    Post-Combine Mock 3/8
    1. Jarvis Jones, OLB
    2. DeAndre Hopkins, WR
    3. B-QB-A: Barkley, Nassib, Bray, Manuel, Wilson...
    4. Jon Bostic, ILB
    5. Matt Scott, QB
    6. Aaron Mellette, WR

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashmouth kings View Post
    40+ yard passes, a.k.a. "the deep ball", are totally over-rated in the NFL.

    QBs throw maybe 5 of them a game (~5-10% of the total offensive plays), and complete 1 or 2.

    With that said, a QB's arm strength should still be one in the top 32 on the entire planet, or they don't belong in the NFL.

    They just don't need to throw or complete many deep (40+ yards) passes.
    I just did a little research on this.
    1) Deep ball most evaluators = 20+ yards. BBMB uses 'as far as a guy can heave it'.
    2) Deep (using 20+ yards) attempts = on average 12.2% of passes thrown.
    3) Fitz was 10.1% of attempts with 12 completions out of 51 attempts. Rodgers was 11.2% with 26 completions out of 62 attempts.

    postnote:

    Fitz actually completed 17 passes. Problem is, 5 of them were to the other team.
    Last edited by hemma; 02-07-2013 at 09:11 AM. Reason: more

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    Quote Originally Posted by hemma View Post
    I just did a little research on this.
    1) Deep ball most evaluators = 20+ yards. BBMB uses 'as far as a guy can heave it'.
    2) Deep (using 20+ yards) attempts = on average 12.2% of passes thrown.
    3) Fitz was 10.1% of attempts with 12 completions out of 51 attempts. Rodgers was 11.2% with 26 completions out of 62 attempts.

    postnote:

    Fitz actually completed 17 passes. Problem is, 5 of them were to the other team.
    Are those percentages for 20+ yards attempts/all attempts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by hemma View Post
    I just did a little research on this.
    1) Deep ball most evaluators = 20+ yards.
    .
    I have to disagree with this number, but that's just me.

    When did a 20 yard throw become anything other than a flick of the wrist? A 20 yard throw should require almost NO EFFORT from a QB to throw and complete, unless the defense is very good.

    When I think "deep ball" I think Matt Ryan to Julio Jones or Brady to Moss back in 2007...throws that go much farther than 30 yards...right around 40 yards in the air is where I would consider such a throw to be a challenge.

    The deep ball to me is at least these 5 things simultaneously: 1) having time in the pocket, 2) making a full windup, 3) using the legs as much as the arms, 4) putting air under it to give the guy time to run underneath and catch it, 5) full follow through, etc.

    When all those things come together, that is a true deep ball...which is why I see it as one of the most rare plays in football...especially to actually complete the pass.

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    Quote Originally Posted by djb4500 View Post
    Are those percentages for 20+ yards attempts/all attempts?
    I'm not quite sure I understand the question - but as an example:

    - Fitz had 505 Attempts for all distances
    - 51 of those attempts were 20 or more yards downfield.
    - He completed 12 to our guys. He completed 5 to the bad guys.

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    Quote Originally Posted by billsgunarule View Post
    The Bills need a deep ball QB and Glennon has a rocket arm, if we had him that would stop defenders crowding the box and give CJ some space to do his thing, draft a deep threat wr and Bills can become real good.
    The guy is a stiff and you would need a moat to keep him safe in the NFL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashmouth kings View Post
    I have to disagree with this number, but that's just me.

    When did a 20 yard throw become anything other than a flick of the wrist? A 20 yard throw should require almost NO EFFORT from a QB to throw and complete, unless the defense is very good.

    When I think "deep ball" I think Matt Ryan to Julio Jones or Brady to Moss back in 2007...throws that go much farther than 30 yards...right around 40 yards in the air is where I would consider such a throw to be a challenge.

    The deep ball to me is at least these 5 things simultaneously: 1) having time in the pocket, 2) making a full windup, 3) using the legs as much as the arms, 4) putting air under it to give the guy time to run underneath and catch it, 5) full follow through, etc.

    When all those things come together, that is a true deep ball...which is why I see it as one of the most rare plays in football...especially to actually complete the pass.
    20 yards downfield may be 30 +. Throws 20 yards downfield (vertical distance) from the opposite hash to the sideline, it's a fair amount more than 20.

    I'll have to look around for my sliderule, but my point is - BBMB don't have a common def for 'long'.

    Using your def, (40 + vertical), 1/3rd as many as 20 + vertical. I don't know anybody that tracks 40+, which is great because BBMB people can make up stuff and no one can dispute.

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    No. He has the best arm in the draft. His "deep ball" is quite average.

    Two totally different things.
    These words were written:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sampten View Post
    Call me crazy, but I'd trade Watkins for our first and their (Cleveland) 1st next year.

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    Quote Originally Posted by smashmouth kings View Post
    I have to disagree with this number, but that's just me.

    When did a 20 yard throw become anything other than a flick of the wrist? A 20 yard throw should require almost NO EFFORT from a QB to throw and complete, unless the defense is very good.

    When I think "deep ball" I think Matt Ryan to Julio Jones or Brady to Moss back in 2007...throws that go much farther than 30 yards...right around 40 yards in the air is where I would consider such a throw to be a challenge.

    The deep ball to me is at least these 5 things simultaneously: 1) having time in the pocket, 2) making a full windup, 3) using the legs as much as the arms, 4) putting air under it to give the guy time to run underneath and catch it, 5) full follow through, etc.

    When all those things come together, that is a true deep ball...which is why I see it as one of the most rare plays in football...especially to actually complete the pass.
    Ya, a 20 yard throw is not a "deep ball."
    These words were written:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sampten View Post
    Call me crazy, but I'd trade Watkins for our first and their (Cleveland) 1st next year.

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    Jamarcus Russell had a cannon. Our own JP Losman did too. Just because a QB has a rocket hanging from their shoulder doesn't mean it translates to success.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jayryp80 View Post
    No. He has the best arm in the draft. His "deep ball" is quite average.

    Two totally different things.
    Even if he had the best "deep ball" of the draft, what does it buy us? If he cannot move, he won't have time to throw that deep ball accurately if at all.

    If you look at the drafts going back 10 years, the guys with the "best deep ball" were often not even close to being the best QB in the draft. That is true this year as well. The best QB in this draft is not Glennon, not even close.
    Adopt-a-Bill 2014 Marquise Goodwin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tates View Post
    Even if he had the best "deep ball" of the draft, what does it buy us? If he cannot move, he won't have time to throw that deep ball accurately if at all.

    If you look at the drafts going back 10 years, the guys with the "best deep ball" were often not even close to being the best QB in the draft. That is true this year as well. The best QB in this draft is not Glennon, not even close.
    Oh I agree. I don't like Glennon at all.
    These words were written:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sampten View Post
    Call me crazy, but I'd trade Watkins for our first and their (Cleveland) 1st next year.

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