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Thread: Mayock on Ogletree’s off the field concerns

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoulCrusher View Post
    SJH is always here there to make our points for us, lol
    Tell how Bills fans and the Buffalo media DIDN'T ride Marshawn out of town on a rail! Because I love sci-fi
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    Good Luck Stevie!!! You will be missed!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjhbillsfan View Post
    I am using Marshawn as a sign that the Billsmafia doesn't tolerate people making the press for the wrong reasons.

    I don't know if this guy is a good guy or not, but two drug suspension, one robbery, and a DWI means that part of the due diligence on deciding if you want him is weighing the potential benefit on the field verses the potential of him being suspended for violating the league personal conduct policy.

    Is this guy good enough to take the risk? Don't know, but it is a risk. No question.
    I would hope that no GM ever makes decisions based on whether or not the fans will like a player personally. Fans like winning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjhbillsfan View Post
    A person is allowed to make mistakes but when they repeat them over and over it shows an inability to learn from those mistakes. Marshawn Lynch was public enemy #1 in Buffalo. The fans won't tolerate a Bill in the police blotter. This guy has proven that he doesn't respect team rules or laws. A mistake you learn from and strive not to repeat is one thing. Same mistake time and time again, has proven that his career is not important enough for him to stay clean.
    It's not like he's made some huge mistakes. He just seems like a dumba**. I'd definitely take him in the 2nd.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
    It's not like he's made some huge mistakes. He just seems like a dumba**. I'd definitely take him in the 2nd.
    failing multiple drug tests, stealing, DUI, those are huge red flags

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    Quote Originally Posted by bilzfancy View Post
    failing multiple drug tests, stealing, DUI, those are huge red flags
    I did a lot of crazy things in college too. At least I didn't run over some lady while I was in Canada.

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    Marvin Lewis isn't perfect, but consider how he dealt with a very similar player last year:

    Considering the start that Burfict has had, he has taken Marvin Lewis’ words to heart. Throughout training camp and the preseason, Lewis’ common refrain on concerns about Burfict’s past have always been about the past being in the past. That has been consistent since the beginning. In an email from Burfict to Lewis just before the draft, Lewis’ message was “put your past behind you and focus on the future.

    [. . .]

    Said Price of Burfict’s letter to teams: “He liked the idea of it. Any time you get acknowledged it was rewarding. Marvin was one of many but on a certain level, Marvin was a guy on the other side of the email that cared.
    And ask yourself why you would want a coach, a GM, an organization that runs from that sort of challenge? Wouldn't you want the people who can get something FROM the player?

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    Quote Originally Posted by forever 7-9 View Post
    I would hope that no GM ever makes decisions based on whether or not the fans will like a player personally. Fans like winning.
    But every GM makes choices based on if the players character will hurt the team, either by being suspended, or otherwise. That is a fact that is hard to deny. This thread is a respected NFL analyst talking about the potential that he has to fall based on ANOTHER character issue coming up.

    Dez Bryant, Blackmon, etc. guys fall all the time based on character. Can't remember his name but a CB that got booted from FL and went to a small school fell to the second. Every year people's character affect there draft stock.

    'Is he worth the risk?' is a question asked in 32 draft rooms every draft. Character is part of that, so is injury history, so is intelligence, so is potential to learn to play at the next level.

    Are you denying that it is part of the discussion?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
    I did a lot of crazy things in college too. At least I didn't run over some lady while I was in Canada.
    Shows you what you know, he was in Buffalo, she was from Canada.
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    Good Luck Stevie!!! You will be missed!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjhbillsfan View Post
    But every GM makes choices based on if the players character will hurt the team, either by being suspended, or otherwise. That is a fact that is hard to deny. This thread is a respected NFL analyst talking about the potential that he has to fall based on ANOTHER character issue coming up.

    Dez Bryant, Blackmon, etc. guys fall all the time based on character. Can't remember his name but a CB that got booted from FL and went to a small school fell to the second. Every year people's character affect there draft stock.

    'Is he worth the risk?' is a question asked in 32 draft rooms every draft. Character is part of that, so is injury history, so is intelligence, so is potential to learn to play at the next level.

    Are you denying that it is part of the discussion?
    I am absolutely, unequivocally NOT saying that teams don't pay attention to it. They absolutely do. THAT is what presents an opportunity to get value -- to get Dez Bryant and Randy Moss 15 picks later than they should go -- to get Jenkins a round before he would go -- to get Burfict UNDRAFTED.

    If teams didn't care, there wouldn't be an inefficiency in the market to even exploit.

    I just want to become the team that attempts to exploit the inefficiency instead of one of the ones that creates it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sjhbillsfan View Post
    Shows you what you know, he was in Buffalo, she was from Canada.
    Sorry, I havent talked about that story in a while. Don't crucify me over one thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
    It's not like he's made some huge mistakes. He just seems like a dumba**. I'd definitely take him in the 2nd.
    This is my point. People were saying that he doesn't get out of The top 10 now you are saying he would be good in the second. He didn't get worse on the field, it is the off the field stuff causing it.

    For the record, I didn't say we shouldn't draft him in the second if he is there, all I said is that his past HAS to make you concerned about his future.
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    It kinda ticks me off that guys like this continue to get 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances, and still have an opportunity to make millions of dollars.

    I think the league should simply disqualify him from the draft. Yeah, he would still go to the highest bidder as an UDFA, but at least he wouldn't get all kinds of guaranteed millions. Take away his bargaining leverage.

    If any of us were to be arrested or fail a drug test at our jobs, we'd be fired -straight up. Yeah, we'd get a second chance, but it becomes -start over time- and have to prove ourselves again.

    Everyone is replaceable. Quit rewarding the irresponsible.

    Our society is so F'ed up. Why can't people just behave themselves?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Brasky View Post
    Sorry, I havent talked about that story in a while. Don't crucify me over one thing...
    Just busting your chops. I read the police report that was published and the police said they didn't think he knew he hit her.

    I am not saying he was a horrible person, just saying he had red flags coming out.
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    Good Luck Stevie!!! You will be missed!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiskibreth View Post
    It kinda ticks me off that guys like this continue to get 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances, and still have an opportunity to make millions of dollars.

    I think the league should simply disqualify him from the draft. Yeah, he would still go to the highest bidder as an UDFA, but at least he wouldn't get all kinds of guaranteed millions. Take away his bargaining leverage.

    If any of us were to be arrested or fail a drug test at our jobs, we'd be fired -straight up. Yeah, we'd get a second chance, but it becomes -start over time- and have to prove ourselves again.

    Everyone is replaceable. Quit rewarding the irresponsible.

    Our society is so F'ed up. Why can't people just behave themselves?
    This post translated: "Why doesn't our society do something that is completely against what our society is supposed to stand for?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by forever 7-9 View Post
    Teams will, as they do, run from a challenge instead of embracing it.

    Someone bump the Vontaze Burfict threads from last year?
    Burfict wasn't drafted. He signed with Cinci as an UDFA, so Cinci didn't have much to lose. Take somebody else at #8 IMO. If he's there at #41, maybe you take him, but you still have to count the risk of whether he can stay clean long enough to be worth the 41st pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by wiskibreth View Post
    It kinda ticks me off that guys like this continue to get 2nd, 3rd and 4th chances, and still have an opportunity to make millions of dollars.

    I think the league should simply disqualify him from the draft. Yeah, he would still go to the highest bidder as an UDFA, but at least he wouldn't get all kinds of guaranteed millions. Take away his bargaining leverage.

    If any of us were to be arrested or fail a drug test at our jobs, we'd be fired -straight up. Yeah, we'd get a second chance, but it becomes -start over time- and have to prove ourselves again.

    Everyone is replaceable. Quit rewarding the irresponsible.

    Our society is so F'ed up. Why can't people just behave themselves?
    I don't think that the NFL can do that legally. The league has to have valid reasons why it does NOT permit players to be eligible for the draft, and so far, only a few have passed court challenges, including, I think: age (they can't draft a 17-year-old); the player is at least junior and/or 1 has year of eligibility left; or the player's collegiate class has graduated.

    More importantly, I don't think that forcing a player like Ogletree to go the UDFA route is a very good idea. It would be much less of a punishment than you think because teams would jump at the opportunity to grab a Top 10 talent and NOT spend a draft pick on him, and it would also undermine the NFL draft, which would be a disaster for the NFL.
    Should have kept Marshawn ... and Andy ... Jairus ...

    Buffalo Bills, 2000-????: same trailer, different park.
    1999 ... 11-5, playoff loss
    2000 .... 8-8
    2001 .... 3-13
    2002 .... 8-8
    2003 ... 6-10
    2004 ... 9-7
    2005 ... 5-11
    2006 ... 7-9
    2007 ...
    7-9
    2008 ... 7-9
    2009 ... 6-10
    2010 ... 4-12
    2011 ...
    6-10
    2012 ... 6-10
    2013 ... 6-10

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    Quote Originally Posted by forever 7-9 View Post
    This post translated: "Why doesn't our society do something that is completely against what our society is supposed to stand for?"
    uhh, NO. I don't know what society you're living in. It's called being accountable for one's own actions. Our society is certainly NOT about the continued rewarding of unconscionable behavior.

    I get second chances, but they usually come at some expense. These guys feel no pain for what they've done. That's what ticks me off.

    There's an overwhelming sense of entitlement in youth today -just because we live free, doesn't mean you can do what the hell ever you want without repercussions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaliBills92 View Post
    If we got him at 8 I would be happy. If we got him in the second I would be beside myself with joy.
    Yeah, but what if he doesn't think Buffalo has a good nightlife scene? We'd have to run him out of town.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LINDA_D View Post
    Burfict wasn't drafted. He signed with Cinci as an UDFA, so Cinci didn't have much to lose. Take somebody else at #8 IMO. If he's there at #41, maybe you take him, but you still have to count the risk of whether he can stay clean long enough to be worth the 41st pick.



    I don't think that the NFL can do that legally. The league has to have valid reasons why it does NOT permit players to be eligible for the draft, and so far, only a few have passed court challenges, including, I think: age (they can't draft a 17-year-old); the player is at least junior and/or 1 has year of eligibility left; or the player's collegiate class has graduated.

    More importantly, I don't think that forcing a player like Ogletree to go the UDFA route is a very good idea. It would be much less of a punishment than you think because teams would jump at the opportunity to grab a Top 10 talent and NOT spend a draft pick on him, and it would also undermine the NFL draft, which would be a disaster for the NFL.
    Yeah, you're probably right. I don't have the answers, but there must be some penalty. The league talks so much about "protecting the shield" -the image of the NFL. I just think the more they continue to overlook this stuff, and not impose any penalty -then we're never going to see it end... or at least taper off...
    - Wiskibreth

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    Quote Originally Posted by wiskibreth View Post
    Yeah, you're probably right. I don't have the answers, but there must be some penalty. The league talks so much about "protecting the shield" -the image of the NFL. I just think the more they continue to overlook this stuff, and not impose any penalty -then we're never going to see it end... or at least taper off...
    Actually, I think that drug use has tapered off because of the sanctions that the NFL does impose, and we don't know how many DUIs NFL players haven't gotten because we only hear about the guys who are dumb enough to drive drunk and NOT the guys who take a limo home from a night on the town.

    The guys who are testing positive for drugs these days are testing positive primarily for marijuana, a drug that more and more Americans would like to see legalized. Back in the 90s, they were using much stronger stuff, and the limit for being legally drunk when driving is now .08 in most states when it was higher 20 years ago.
    Should have kept Marshawn ... and Andy ... Jairus ...

    Buffalo Bills, 2000-????: same trailer, different park.
    1999 ... 11-5, playoff loss
    2000 .... 8-8
    2001 .... 3-13
    2002 .... 8-8
    2003 ... 6-10
    2004 ... 9-7
    2005 ... 5-11
    2006 ... 7-9
    2007 ...
    7-9
    2008 ... 7-9
    2009 ... 6-10
    2010 ... 4-12
    2011 ...
    6-10
    2012 ... 6-10
    2013 ... 6-10

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    I find on the opinions of every player, that Buffalo fans are very judgemental and negative. None of us are perfect, and we've all made the same mistake 10 times. These kids are bred to play ball, and in this case its one of the best LB's (a position of weakness) in the class. We shouldn't not take the BPA because he's made some mistakes. DUI? Really? I bet half of you have breathalizers in your cars LOL. Not actually, but still we all have a friend who does and people learn from those mistakes. We shouldn't punish ourselves because we don't like the kids history. All that matters is now, and the future. A coach like Marrone could get a kid like this on track.
    -
    If he's the best player where we are picking, take him, if not, dont. As for his drug tests, are we talking steroids, or marijuana? If the ladder, seriously who gives a fu**?

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