Whaley on QBs - "There's no total package"

[jrober38]

But, but, but, ughh, but, umm we have Spiller and Dareus. Gilmore is set to become the next Revis.

Fact is, 2010 set us back miles.

We wasted an entire draft and Free Agency period on a 3-4 defense we ran for about 10 weeks.

It wasn't until 2012 that Nix put together two good picks and obviously made a move in Free Agency.

I agree with the holes on the roster:
1) No QB, no developmental QB
2) One reliable WR
3) No Tight End outside of Chandler
4) No Interior D Line depth
5) No linebackers worth talking about
6) No #2 Cornerback
7) Questionable answer at SS with Searcy

I needs to be another aggressive Free Agency period for: Linebacker, Cornerback, Tight End

And the draft: Patterson, QB, back to LB, CB, TE, DT.

We need to try to get another tight end in the mix in free agency. We have too many holes to get an effective player through the draft and there are several good tight ends available this year.

Otherwise we're in trouble. The crop of FA linebackers is awful which is where we need the most help defensively.

All things considered, it's probably going to be another long season due to the fact that 2010 and 2011 drafts were terrible and we can't give out $100 mil contracts every year in FA.

[sechristbmw]

Gilmore, Mckelvin, Williams, Brooks, Rodgers is bad? I would love to see what your standards are for great, or even good. Young, I could understand...but bad? Hardly.

Actually mikey152 it is.

Gilmore is solid, give him that.

Williams was abused so much that Terrence McGee had to come in, his knee gave out in about 5 games. That's the #34 pick who has done nothing in 2 years.

Brings us to McKelvin - So up and down in Buffalo. As a rookie he looked like the real deal, but he struggled along with the rest of the team from 2009 - 2011, was benched at one point by Gailey, had a nice year last year and is a Free Agent. With his lawn being burnt and the death threats and the losing, would you be rushing to resign in Buffalo?

Brooks - Looks like a slot corner, but I love his athleticism and demeanor.

Rogers - Emergency corner


That's not much to hang your hat on. If McKelvin goes, then we have Gilmore and probably will be forced to start Williams again.

[sechristbmw]

We need to try to get another tight end in the mix in free agency. We have too many holes to get an effective player through the draft and there are several good tight ends available this year.

Otherwise we're in trouble. The crop of FA linebackers is awful which is where we need the most help defensively.

All things considered, it's probably going to be another long season due to the fact that 2010 and 2011 drafts were terrible and we can't give out $100 mil contracts every year in FA.

And don't forget the switching to a new defense excuse.

We can't expect the Bills to do any better than 32nd against the run in 2013. It would be too unfair.

[sechristbmw]

We need to try to get another tight end in the mix in free agency. We have too many holes to get an effective player through the draft and there are several good tight ends available this year.

Otherwise we're in trouble. The crop of FA linebackers is awful which is where we need the most help defensively.

All things considered, it's probably going to be another long season due to the fact that 2010 and 2011 drafts were terrible and we can't give out $100 mil contracts every year in FA.

That's what I said regarding Tight End. We need a Free Agent.

Chandler wasn't a good athlete before tearing his knee up in Week 17.

He isn't going to be ready to go.

Next up right now is Lee Smith, followed by Dorin Dickerson and Mike Caussin. Have mercy.....

[mikey152]

Actually mikey152 it is.

Gilmore is solid, give him that.

Williams was abused so much that Terrence McGee had to come in, his knee gave out in about 5 games. That's the #34 pick who has done nothing in 2 years.

Brings us to McKelvin - So up and down in Buffalo. As a rookie he looked like the real deal, but he struggled along with the rest of the team from 2009 - 2011, was benched at one point by Gailey, had a nice year last year and is a Free Agent. With his lawn being burnt and the death threats and the losing, would you be rushing to resign in Buffalo?

Brooks - Looks like a slot corner, but I love his athleticism and demeanor.

Rogers - Emergency corner


That's not much to hang your hat on. If McKelvin goes, then we have Gilmore and probably will be forced to start Williams again.

So, let me get this straight....

Gilmore, who was a ROOKIE, was solid last year. He is only going to get better. They also have Brooks, who was a rookie this year and out over half the season, who is a good looking nickel CB. Then there are Mckelvin and Williams who both have alot of potential and have shown flashes but also been the goat at times. Rodgers, who is the 5th CB, mind you, is an emergency guy who is what he is.

I don't see the problem. Especially when you consider that Gilmore and Williams are 22, Brooks is 24, Rodgers is 25 and Mckelvin is 27. They are ALL going to get better, not worse. We are moving to a defense that will likely make their jobs easier.

Go ahead and think they suck. You're wrong. They could probably use a dependable vet, but I would argue they have one of the most talented young secondaries in the league.

[jrober38]

So, let me get this straight....

Gilmore, who was a ROOKIE, was solid last year. He is only going to get better. They also have Brooks, who was a rookie this year and out over half the season, who is a good looking nickel CB. Then there are Mckelvin and Williams who both have alot of potential and have shown flashes but also been the goat at times. Rodgers, who is the 5th CB, mind you, is an emergency guy who is what he is.

I don't see the problem. Especially when you consider that Gilmore and Williams are 22, Brooks is 24, Rodgers is 25 and Mckelvin is 27. They are ALL going to get better, not worse. We are moving to a defense that will likely make their jobs easier.

Go ahead and think they suck. You're wrong. They could probably use a dependable vet, but I would argue they have one of the most talented young secondaries in the league.

McKelvin is a free agent.

Williams isn't athletic enough to play corner. He was the team's worst player last year. Every game he was healthy enough to play our defense got torched. If he wasn't the worst CB in the league, he was definitely in the bottom 10 of PFF evaluations.

[sechristbmw]

So, let me get this straight....

Gilmore, who was a ROOKIE, was solid last year. He is only going to get better. They also have Brooks, who was a rookie this year and out over half the season, who is a good looking nickel CB. Then there are Mckelvin and Williams who both have alot of potential and have shown flashes but also been the goat at times. Rodgers, who is the 5th CB, mind you, is an emergency guy who is what he is.

I don't see the problem. Especially when you consider that Gilmore and Williams are 22, Brooks is 24, Rodgers is 25 and Mckelvin is 27. They are ALL going to get better, not worse. We are moving to a defense that will likely make their jobs easier.

Go ahead and think they suck. You're wrong. They could probably use a dependable vet, but I would argue they have one of the most talented young secondaries in the league.

mikey152 - a couple of things.

1) We are past talking about McKelvin's potential. He was drafted 5 years ago now. He is 28 years old. He is what he is. He was riding the pine for us in Year 4. He had a good year last year.

2) Williams has been abused in Training Camp, in games. He got pulled last year in favor of 33 year old Terrence McGee on one leg. What does that tell you? Shaw66 will accuse me of if a guy gives up one catch he sucks, that's not it. Williams was terrible for the entire 2012 season after he was GIVEN / HANDED a starting spot by Nix. He got the reps in Training Camp, he got destroyed in the regular season.

[sechristbmw]

McKelvin is a free agent.

Williams isn't athletic enough to play corner. He was the team's worst player last year. Every game he was healthy enough to play our defense got torched. If he wasn't the worst CB in the league, he was definitely in the bottom 10 of PFF evaluations.

I'd like to see those numbers by PFF.

The only thing Nix and others can say is "he is young, he'll get better"

[mikey152]

McKelvin is a free agent.

Williams isn't athletic enough to play corner. He was the team's worst player last year. Every game he was healthy enough to play our defense got torched. If he wasn't the worst CB in the league, he was definitely in the bottom 10 of PFF evaluations.

Not yet, he isn't...and Nix has given every indication they plan on resigning him. If they don't, they will sign a different vet.

As for all the bs about Aaron Williams...Bull****. He is plenty athletic to play corner. In fact, his numbers at the combine are almost identical to those of Richard Sherman despite being almost 10 pounds heavier. Unless of course you think Sherman isn't athletic enough, too...He struggled in man because he is young and spent half his time in college playing safety. Not to mention our pass rush was inconsistent at best.

[mikey152]

mikey152 - a couple of things.

1) We are past talking about McKelvin's potential. He was drafted 5 years ago now. He is 28 years old. He is what he is. He was riding the pine for us in Year 4. He had a good year last year.

2) Williams has been abused in Training Camp, in games. He got pulled last year in favor of 33 year old Terrence McGee on one leg. What does that tell you? Shaw66 will accuse me of if a guy gives up one catch he sucks, that's not it. Williams was terrible for the entire 2012 season after he was GIVEN / HANDED a starting spot by Nix. He got the reps in Training Camp, he got destroyed in the regular season.

He is also two years younger than Ron Brooks. He is alot better in zone than he is in man right now, but he has all the skills to get better. He is going to make some Bills fans look foolish this season, IMO.

[sechristbmw]

He is also two years younger than Ron Brooks. He is alot better in zone than he is in man right now, but he has all the skills to get better. He is going to make some Bills fans look foolish this season, IMO.

You're right on his combine #s.

He was better than Sherman on every meaningful drill - bench, same 40, better 20 second, 3 cone, better broad jump.

[Scott7975]

Common sense doesn't tell you that. Lande has plenty of common sense and knows a heck of a lot more about scouting than you or I. What you've got there isn't common sense, it's an opinion, an opinion worth as much as mine or anyone else's on this board, but that doesn't mean that people who disagree with you lack common sense.

Ok... You honestly think that Ryan Nassib is THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE in the draft? Thats what you are arguing here isnt it? Or are you just arguing that some other guy thinks so? Either. IN MY OPINION... thats nuts.

[Scott7975]

Please don't try to talk logic with that guy. It will get you nowhere. You and I both understand this, but there are a few on here that think that the quarterback the Bills want will magically be there at 41. I don't think it's the case. Then there are those that think we should just pick a quarterback, any quarterback, at 41 and be happy with it because they are all "rated" so closely. This is equally ridiculous. I don't get it...

Arent you the one that runs around spouting that the draft is a big lottery? Essentially, you can just pick a quarterback, any quarterback. If its a lottery like you claim then they are pretty much all hit or miss.

[whorlnut]

Arent you the one that runs around spouting that the draft is a big lottery? Essentially, you can just pick a quarterback, any quarterback. If its a lottery like you claim then they are pretty much all hit or miss.

No, I never said to pick any quarterback. Pick the one you like and then hope they perform like you expect them to. My point is that any player can boom and any player can bust. It's just how it is. There have been many "safe" picks that have been awful in the NFL. Likewise, there have been ones with tons of red flags that have been amazing. Sorry if my "spouting" offended you...

[Scott7975]

No, I never said to pick any quarterback. Pick the one you like and then hope they perform like you expect them to. My point is that any player can boom and any player can bust. It's just how it is. There have been many "safe" picks that have been awful in the NFL. Likewise, there have been ones with tons of red flags that have been amazing. Sorry if my "spouting" offended you...

So then it doesnt matter who you take then does it? Spouting doesnt offend me. It was just a word I used to describe how you went on and on about it in another arguement. I believe with the same guy.

As for my opinion. If they like a guy soo much to take him at 8 then so be it. If they wait until round 2 so be it. As long as they take someone they like. If they wait past round 2 though then they likely are not caring about getting a rookie in here.

[Jm2009]

So then it doesnt matter who you take then does it? Spouting doesnt offend me. It was just a word I used to describe how you went on and on about it in another arguement. I believe with the same guy.

As for my opinion. If they like a guy soo much to take him at 8 then so be it. If they wait until round 2 so be it. As long as they take someone they like. If they wait past round 2 though then they likely are not caring about getting a rookie in here.

If they wait till after round two, I'm going to be pretty disappointed.

[whorlnut]

So then it doesnt matter who you take then does it? Spouting doesnt offend me. It was just a word I used to describe how you went on and on about it in another arguement. I believe with the same guy.

As for my opinion. If they like a guy soo much to take him at 8 then so be it. If they wait until round 2 so be it. As long as they take someone they like. If they wait past round 2 though then they likely are not caring about getting a rookie in here.

You missed the point. If they think their guy isn't going to be there in the second, they really need to consider taking him at 8. You don't want to get a quarterback you don't like at 41, just to take one.

[Scott7975]

If they wait till after round two, I'm going to be pretty disappointed.

I will too. It shows that either they dont care about getting a rookie or that they dont believe any of them to be useful again.

You missed the point. If they think their guy isn't going to be there in the second, they really need to consider taking him at 8. You don't want to get a quarterback you don't like at 41, just to take one.

Im aware of that point and I agree with it. However, there are bound to be a few that they like. I just dont believe any of them to be worth #8. Id rather trade down and get a couple second round picks and take the QB in the late first if thats the case. I just believe that there are too many talented guys that we can get at 8 and fill a need. Yes, I know QB is a need too but I dont believe the QBs to be talented enough from #8.

After thinking about this some more... I wouldnt be surprised if they did not take a QB in the first 3 rounds at all. The reason I think this, and I hope Im wrong btw, is because of all the players they just cut. We have very little at corner. We got nothing at LB. We got nothing at safety. Jones was let go and it appears Nelson is going to follow suit like I figured. That means we got nothing at WR too. We also have pretty much nothing at TE. Who knows whats going to happen with Byrd and Levitre... we might be looking for one or both replacements. Its just alot of positions that absolutely have to be filled and the draft isnt going to be enough. I doubt we can do too much in FA with our ~20 mil cap space.... just my current thinking and again, I hope I am wrong because id like to see a rookie picked up by round 2.