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Thread: The business side of a drafted QB

  1. #1

    Default The business side of a drafted QB

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    I can't believe how ridiculous this argument has gotten considering how long our playoff drought currently is. I'm seeing posters on this board who have been trashing the crap out of Fitz for 3 years saying they don't want to draft a QB in the 1st round when we could possibly have our pick of the litter from this class... or at least one of the top 2 or 3. As someone who's likely been labelled as a Fitz lover over the last few years, I'm flabbergasted.

    You posters are the same ones who often talk about not going to games you would have otherwise gone to or not renewing season tickets or this or that or blah blah blah. You do realize that Buddy knows he has to sell tickets this year, right? Sure, we just renewed a lease... awesome! I love that... really do! But do you think that makes it safe for Buddy and Co to just give this team a 3-year rebuild to work towards the playoffs? Seriously?

    Yes, OBD has released some of our beloved players: Barnett, Wilson, Nelson, D. Jones to name a few. But honestly, other than Nelson, which of those players can't we upgrade? We're not in full-blown rebuild just because we cut 2 aging players and 2 UFAs, one of who barely earned any roster spot and one of whom is coming off a serious injury.

    We'll probably cut more. So what? Why does that mean it's "rebuild" in whatever negative light you want to call it. Expectations will still be playoffs. Nix and Marrone are currently freeing up Cap Space to target the Free Agents they want and resign whatever guys on our roster they want to be sure we keep.

    We have a team here. We have a great backfield, a potentially great DL, a young, but talented secondary, a couple raw LBs who might flourish in another system, a solid young OL, and a solid #1 WR with a bunch of raw talent around him.

    Which brings us to the crux of this argument. WE WON'T WIN WITHOUT A QB!!!! I wanted Fitz to be that guy. He's not. T-Jax is just Fitz in different skin (pun intended). Soooo... Brad Smith? .... Seriously, we need a QB. Reports are that Alex Smith was traded to KC, so the #1 FA QB is out the window. Matt Moore is a VERY minor upgrade from what we have, if at all. I don't see Nix and Co relying on any other individual FA QB to come in and make a major impact.

    So that leaves us with this "weak QB draft class." Whatever. I've argued til I've been blue in the face that this is or is not a weak class. The fact is that fans know what they'll get in Fitz. Most fans, I think, know what T-Jax brings... nothing more than a lateral movement from Fitz, though Tarvaris was used to being surrounded consistently by pretty good teams in Minn and Seattle... so I might argue that Fitz would flourish more considering what he's used to. Nix and Co. know that this team needs to draft a brand new guy at the Face of the Franchise position. And he knows that he'll likely have to be ready to start day 1, or at least at some point during this season, after all, how will he and Marrone expect to sell tickets if we're 3-8 heading into the last quarter of the season with 2 or 3 home games left if they can't give fans a glimpse of the future?

    This is not an argument of BPA. I think posters on this board know crap and many of the "experts" on this board refer to only know what NFL GMs and scouts tell them that's not a lie or (sick of this word) a "smokescreen," which isn't a lot. I loved how Kiper put one QB in his 1st round mock. Stir the pot Mel, stir the pot.

    The fact is that the Bills need to sell tickets. We have some of the cheapest ones in the league so sell-outs are that much more important. Buddy knows this. And this is why we will draft a QB almost CERTAINLY in rounds 1 or 2, but no later than round 3.

    *Again, the whole post above is moot if we go out and get a guy like Matt Flynn, who I actually want pretty badly.

  2. #2
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    to avoid taking a QB is to court failure. Sooner or later Buddy has to step up
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    Matt Flynn. Ewww. I want a leader, and not a bench leader

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    Gotta be a QB with the first or second pick. I don't care if this draft is being labeled as a down year for QBs. There could certainly be a guy in there who will be a good player.

    I like the idea of taking the best WR available at 8 and trading up to get a QB in the first or staying put for one in the second.

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    I'd like to see one taken this year, and let a QB competition ensue. Whoever wins, wins; including Fitz. If Fitz or TJax finish "3rd", they are shown the door, and Corp can try to develop as the QB3.

    Next year, draft another QB. Same situation. Hopefully the rookie and 2nd year guy both beat out Tjax (yes, insinuating that I'd want him this year as our backup/interim starter), and we have 2 young guys, as QB1 and QB2.

    Sometimes I wonder why there isn't a competition at every position every year. If the incumbent players really are the best, they will win anyway. If not, we will never have a vet overstaying his welcome.
    -G

    "I don't like the Dolphins, I don't like the Jets, I don't like the m- f- Patriots! I don't like the Browns 'cuz they start with a B! Let's go Bills Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba Bills, Let's go Bills!" -If you hear this being cheered at Bills games... I am likely the one you are hearing!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZbacker View Post
    Gotta be a QB with the first or second pick. I don't care if this draft is being labeled as a down year for QBs. There could certainly be a guy in there who will be a good player.

    I like the idea of taking the best WR available at 8 and trading up to get a QB in the first or staying put for one in the second.
    This makes some sense. I think there will be some good value at QB when we pick in the second round. Why reach for Mike Glennon in the first when you can get him in the second potentially? It's not like he's going to be any better of a player just because you invested more in him. I feel like people will be upset we didn't take a QB at 8 and then the guy they were screaming about will be there in the second round. Even then, we still might have a need at QB even if we get a guy. Look at the Panthers with Jimmy Clausen.
    Note to Russ Brandon: Potential sells tickets in September and October, winning sells tickets in November and December.

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    If you have your guy in mind you take them when you get the chance. The QB position needs to be addressed with your top choice, not your second or third. The one position that should be addressed with conviction is at QB.

    I am not going to sit here and debate this because not for nothing guys like Kapernick went in the second and Russell Wilson went in the third. I am wiling to stake my reputation that if there was a redraft in those kid's respective classes they would go a lot higher. One could argue their teams got incredible value, others would argue that at least 15 or so GMs really missed out.

    We know some GMs had those guys rated where they were drafted and others have them rated round or two later.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillsFan View Post
    If you have your guy in mind you take them when you get the chance. The QB position needs to be addressed with your top choice, not your second or third.
    Right, devoid the team of talent in another area in order to get a QB we could have gotten later, where they should be taken. Good plan... Geno may be the only pick with true "1st round talent". In other years, most of these same QBs would be R2/R3 selections... so why would taking them in the 2nd round (when they are graded, or perhaps even before where they are graded) be a problem?

    With the exception of RB and OL/DL, our ENTIRE team needs talent improvement. Drafting a QB (or any position that isn't the top prospects) in R1 and forgoing the top talent at other positions is foolish, unless you're a contender already.
    Last edited by BuffaloSuperBowlParade; 02-26-2013 at 10:29 AM. Reason: grammatical errors
    -G

    "I don't like the Dolphins, I don't like the Jets, I don't like the m- f- Patriots! I don't like the Browns 'cuz they start with a B! Let's go Bills Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba Bills, Let's go Bills!" -If you hear this being cheered at Bills games... I am likely the one you are hearing!

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  9. #9
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    No real rocket science in the OP. I think you have to take Buddy at his word - he's told us he wants more talent at QB.

    I wouldn't be so excited about Matt Flynn. His only claim to fame at this point is that he beat out Brian Brohm for the backup spot at GB and he beat out Tarvaris Jackson for the backup spot at Seattle. If Flynn looked like a franchise guy, I wouldn't expect him to have lost the starting job in Seattle as quickly as he did.

    But one way or another, I think they'll get more QB talent in the door, and that means Flynn, Smith or a draftee in the first or second round. Anyone who falls to the third round has some serious questions about him.

    Buddy is in love with BPA, and that makes me think that this year may actually be different than previous years in terms of trading up or down. I doubt he trade up out of the 8 spot, because it would cost too much, but it's easy to see him trading down at 8 so he could get an extra pick and still get a decent QB in the first round, or trade up out of the second round to get the QB. Trading up will cost him picks; much easier to see him trading down in the first round.

    It's a virtual certainty there will be a new QB on the team come September. I can't see how that won't happen. That means that either Jackson or Fitz will be gone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffaloSuperBowlParade View Post
    Right, devoid the team of talent in another area in order to get a QB we could have gotten later, where they should be taken. Good plan... Geno may be the only pick with true "1st round talent". In other years, most of these same QBs would be R2/R3 selections... so why would taking them in the 2nd round (when they are graded, or perhaps even before where they are graded) be a problem?

    With the exception of RB and OL/DL, our ENTIRE team needs talent improvement. Drafting a QB (or any position that isn't the top prospects) in R1 and forgoing the top talent at other positions is foolish, unless you're a contender already.
    Well, lets stop for a second and take a look at the Bledsoe lead roster in Buffalo. That was easily one of the better defenses the Bills have put on the field and pretty stout offensively as well. Yet Bledsoe could not put us over the hump at th QB position and could not beat some teams second and third stringers to push us into the playoffs.

    What is the point of having a Ferrari with absolutely no engine in it? You are acting like this years top ten is rich with talent all over the board. Meanwhile the two best players in the draft are OTs. The QB is what makes a team tick. More often than not we see QBs make up for poor play by their team oppose to the other way around.

    You build up your roster of Pro Bowl LBs and DBs while I try to do everything in my power to improve the most important position in the sport.
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  11. #11
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    Who is saying they don't want to draft a QB?

    All anybody says is they don't want to take a QB too high, with a pick where they aren't worth the pick. IE Barkley at 8.

    We go through this every year. People wanted Tebow or Gabbert or Locker or Ponder or Clausen or countless other scrub QB's over the past couple years.

    The way to go is to find a gem at good value, and still get a stud football player at the top. I don't know that any of the QB's are Top 8 players in this draft.

    You people take what other people say, and then create some absolute statement and then ***** about it.

    You hear: "I don't want a QB at 8"

    You turn it into: "I don't want a QB"

    I want a QB. Believe me. I don't want Fitz or Jackson starting. But if you get a value guy in the 2nd or 3rd, you don't have to commit to him for 3 years. The true success stories are either taken in the top 2 or in the 2nd or 3rd. The flop stories are taken at 5-15, such as the QB's I mention before.

    You don't have to look back far in draft history to see it. The only successful QB's taken in this area of the draft lately are Flacco and Cutler. None of these QB's this year have those type of skill sets. Period.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillsFan View Post
    Well, lets stop for a second and take a look at the Bledsoe lead roster in Buffalo. That was easily one of the better defenses the Bills have put on the field and pretty stout offensively as well. Yet Bledsoe could not put us over the hump at th QB position and could not beat some teams second and third stringers to push us into the playoffs.

    What is the point of having a Ferrari with absolutely no engine in it? You are acting like this years top ten is rich with talent all over the board. Meanwhile the two best players in the draft are OTs. The QB is what makes a team tick. More often than not we see QBs make up for poor play by their team oppose to the other way around.

    You build up your roster of Pro Bowl LBs and DBs while I try to do everything in my power to improve the most important position in the sport.
    2002 Bledsoe passed for 4,000+ yards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jrober38 View Post
    2002 Bledsoe passed for 4,000+ yards.
    2012 Carson Palmer threw for over 4,000 yards whats your point
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    Quote Originally Posted by BillsFan View Post
    2012 Carson Palmer threw for over 4,000 yards whats your point
    You said having a 'Ferrari' is useless if you don't have an engine.

    Just pointing out that we had a 500hp engine under the hood in 2002 and it wasn't enough.

    Sometimes it doesn't matter how good your QB is if you don't have a complete team, and our team is nowhere near complete. Our defense is horrible and we only have 1 reliable pass catcher.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BillsFan View Post
    What is the point of having a Ferrari with absolutely no engine in it?
    You build up your roster of Pro Bowl LBs and DBs while I try to do everything in my power to improve the most important position in the sport.
    So your team will look like the 2012 Saints? Sweet. My team will look like, oh I don't know, how about the 2012 Bengals. I'd rather have "my team" than "yours".
    -G

    "I don't like the Dolphins, I don't like the Jets, I don't like the m- f- Patriots! I don't like the Browns 'cuz they start with a B! Let's go Bills Ba-Ba-Ba-Ba Bills, Let's go Bills!" -If you hear this being cheered at Bills games... I am likely the one you are hearing!

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    So OP, you are suggesting the Bills draft a "marginally talented" QB this year to label him the "franchise QB" just to sell tickets ????? That sounds like TO times 2 and guess what the fans are wise to that. I have a better idea spoken by Al Davis...Just win baby !!! Winning packs the seats and a marginally rookie QB does not equal winning !!!!

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    My only question is, do we pass up far greater talent at 8 when our long term best interests might be to draft guy at QB in the 2nd or 3rd and get some of these badly needed players early on like LB or CB. Can you imagine Jarvis Jones or Moore or Werner or Jordan falling to us at 8 and passing on them when Buddy is secretly thinking that if his rookie QB doesn't shine, he will sell the ranch to trade up next year and grab our guy? That's assuming someone will be there for us, of course.
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  18. #18
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    All this discussion points up one thing we all know. It was a serious mistake to pass on all the QB talent in the draft the past two years

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Baad 1 View Post
    So OP, you are suggesting the Bills draft a "marginally talented" QB this year to label him the "franchise QB" just to sell tickets ????? That sounds like TO times 2 and guess what the fans are wise to that. I have a better idea spoken by Al Davis...Just win baby !!! Winning packs the seats and a marginally rookie QB does not equal winning !!!!
    I don't think these QBs are marginally talented... first of all... second of all, if what we currently have are QBs lacking talent and marginal talent is an upgrade... yes.

    And I'm not saying I want them to draft a marginally talented guy in order to sell tickets. I live 6000 miles away so I'm not buying either way. I'm saying that if you don't think Buddy and Russ aren't thinking about selling tickets, you're nuts. And this team hasn't addressed the QB position with any urgency since trading for Bledsoe, which began as a huge success before ending in failure.

    The point of the post was that I think a lot of people are saying there's no chance we draft a QB at 8 when I think there's actually a very good chance we draft a QB at 8. Perhaps Buddy actually has one or two of these QBs in his top 8 on his board... you don't know. Or maybe Buddy will actually "reach" for a QB. Maybe Buddy's never really been about BPA... go look at our drafting of Troupe and Graham for that. You just don't know! Smith and Barkley, I would bet, will be drafted at 8 if they're on the board. It might even be another guy that surpises us like Nassib or Manuel or Wilson or Glennon... I pray it's not Glennon.

  20. #20

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    We've gone "BPA" for 3 years in a row with Buddy with our first pick... where has it gotten us? We improved after the first season and regressed after the second. Buddy has no evidence that his strategy works, what makes you think he won't pull the trigger on a QB early, right or wrong? The extension for Whaley has to be a little like a gun to Buddy's head at this point.

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